Gretchen Whitmer responds to calls by some Democrats to vote ‘uncommitted’ in Michigan’s primary on Tuesday
Gretchen Whitmer, the Michigan governor, pushed back on calls to not vote for Joe Biden over his handling of the Israel-Gaza conflict, saying on Sunday that could help Trump get re-elected.
“It’s important not to lose sight of the fact that any vote that’s not cast for Joe Biden supports a second Trump term,” she said on Sunday during an interview on CNN’s State of the Union. “A second Trump term would be devastating. Not just on fundamental rights, not just on our democracy here at home, but also when it comes to foreign policy. This was a man who promoted a Muslim ban.”
Whitmer, who is a co-chair of Biden’s 2024 campaign, also said she wasn’t sure what to expect when it came to the protest vote.
Rashida Tlaib, a Democrat who is the only Palestinian-American serving in Congress, urged Democrats last week to vote “uncommitted” in Michigan’s 27 February primary.
On the one hand, this is true, you gotta vote for the lesser of two evils.
But also, there are only two candidates.
So now it’s this shitty situation where US voters just have to vote Biden no matter what, he can do anything and there will never be consequences electorally. And i really feel like there should be consequences for supporting a genocide.
Yeah, if we had a good process to hold referendums on certain important contentious issues, that would seemingly alleviate some of the problems with the two-party system. And drop the electoral college process entirely
How quickly we forget. Remember Brexit?
Yeah, I do. I had that particular counterfactual in mind when I wrote. It’s not like we don’t get bad outcomes with representative democracy as well. The stances on reproductive care, marriage equality, and policies on marijuana have traditionally been either contrary to majority view or else hit back and forth as a spotlight issue.
One should not have to say bundle positions on Israel, abortion, guns, and drugs. Voting for the president like getting cable vs satellite. And the electoral college definitely worsens that, and probably the supreme court as well.
Not saying referendums are perfect. Just saying we in the US aren’t giving a thoughtful referendums process enough of a chance in my view, and the two-party process is such that one party going off the rails causes the other party to be a forced choice.
As a disclaimer, I’m a progressive liberal and I like Biden, and I think Trump is atrocious and fascist and his inner circle are appalling for continuing to support him.
Voting uncommitted is a fine thing to do during the primary. It shows the party that people are displeased with how the government is handling the Gaza situation.
Sitting out an election in Michigan is a bad idea. If you’re in a safe state, go wild. Just not Michigan.
She’s not wrong, but I’m not sure this strategy is going to work. Biden is at risk of losing Michigan because of his support of Israel, and I think people are going to be swayed by a, “better than the other guy,” argument on that issue. You can argue that economically, even if Biden is not as progressive as you’d like, he will govern in a manner closer to your beliefs than Trump. Trump is even more hostile to the Palestinians than Biden, but if Biden is supplying Israel with unconditional military aid while defunding UNRWA, it will be hard to claim that he’s different in any practical way. If the democrats are worried about Michigan, they should be trying to push Biden to do something meaningful, like restoring humanitarian aid to Gaza, not scolding their voters.
At least it’s not a sea of [deleted] like reddit lmao
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Gonna cut her some slack since the last time trump was president his sycophants almost kidnapped and executed her.
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I wonder if right wing fascism will arrive more easily and more quickly if we vote Biden vs sitting on our hands and watching trump be elected. Maybe I’m just old-fashioned but I’ll try give the non fascism side a leg up every opportunity I get.
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This is somewhat true, however there was also a fascist uprising in the US during the 1930’s that was only just avoided.
only just avoided
The US in the 1940s: proceeds to round up and cage human beings specifically because of their race and country of origin
Hitler be looking at how the US is handling the Native “problem” and be taking notes
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Yes, the “fascization” of the US government has been unfolding for decades.
To make a leap from that to an inevitability that “destroying the system to start over” is the only cure…
Well, isn’t the cure is worse than the disease?
What are the practicalities your presumptive solution hand-waves away?
Insurance and reinsurance markets, for example, provide regional/national/global stability for business to happen in the face of mass catastrophe. Medicare and Medicaid provide millions of people with healthcare.
These details, and literally thousands like them, make up the everyday function of government—even if they are currently not working in some places or not working as well as we’d like in many others!
If you’re actually committed to the welfare of millions of ordinary people, then your position has got to be more nuanced than “destroy the system!”
What are we destroying? What are we replacing it with? What kind of work are we doing to ensure a reasonable transition? Who is the we that is organizing toward a new vision? How do we work with opposing forces inside and outside of our camp?
All of those questions fall under the banner of politics and the answers are constrained by the agendas of the participants engaging with the existing system.
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I appreciate that your answer was something other than violent revolution or its buddies. Thank you for elaborating!
If you’re willing to share: where would you go?
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Yes, very well said.
I’m considering the Lusophone world for myself and my family. My vision is to find a place where my kid can put down roots. I’m having a hard time working out the details, though.
I have climate-driven concerns about living near the equator or in Europe. And as part of the contraction you mentioned, I expect moving around the globe will become difficult or problematic.
That doesn’t leave many options.
Welp… it’s not a lie. What a horrible situation to be in. Anyways, it it helps, I find it impossible that trump would support palestine. So it’s kind of a useless point atm.
Alternate title: Michigan governor explains first past the post voting. People unhappy.
This is a primary. Voting for Biden won’t make it less likely that Trump will be elected.
So they’re not even the official candidates yet? Just how long is your election cycle?
Primaries are rigged there’s no real choice
That’s not really true. Primaries weren’t rigged in the Rupublican primaries in 2016. They voted Trump in despite what the RNC wanted. It was the Dem’s primary that was rigged (and turned a bunch of people off of voting in the main election, and it seems those people still haven’t learned anything).
How were the Dem primaries rigged. I still see lots of people claim this to this day. But no one has ever presented evidence. I voted for Sanders in 2016 and 2020 primaries. But legitimately more people voted for Clinton in 2016. She also won more delegates. She won fair and square. Now do I think there needs to be a better process? Absolutely. But in the system democrats have used for the last 30 to 40 years Sanders lost fairly despite a strong showing.
Depends what you mean by “rigged”.
The parties, the candidates, the PACs, and the media are all theoretically (and in many cases, legally bound to be) separate entities, acting independently. But in reality, a lot of them share the same interests, and so some things happen that aren’t exactly collusion or breaking any rules, but do give an advantage to one candidate, which many voters consider unfair.
In the case of the 2016 DNC primary, I think the critical objection is not the existence of superdelegates, but how they were presented in the media.
Clinton hovered between 54%-59% of the pledged delegates, but the media coverage would consistently include superdelegates in the count, showing Clinton ahead by 600 or so delegates, giving her “70% of the total count, and making her the presumptive nominee! The Sanders campaign doesn’t have any chance of coming back from this!” …before most of the country had even voted.
This kind of thing happens all the time, with lots of stuff, and it’s not technically “rigging”.
But seeing an official-looking number on TV – that you know, provably, doesn’t reflect the reality of the ongoing election… That feels, to many people, like it’s “rigged”.
I mean rigged when I say rigged. But yes I agree with a lot of your other points. The system absolutely should be more democratic and clearer. And our media should absolutely be constantly rebuked for the shit show it is.
I have no love for the system or democrats. But I really think all this talk about it being “rigged” nearly a decade on. Realistically is keeping us from improving the situation or finding better solutions. Instead grinding some perceived axe. While people, we all would likely be United against are United themselves getting things that we hate done. Clinton and Wasserman Schultz definitely earned plenty of that ire though.
The superdelegates, which in 2016 made up about 15% of the delegates, were not elected and are not beholden to any voters, they just chose whichever candidate they wanted, and 604 out of 651 went for Clinton immediately, which meant Bernie started off at an immediate disadvantage.
There’s this idea that if it’s technically possible to succeed, that the system is not rigged (see racism, sexism, etc). But that’s ridiculous. If someone starts off at a major advantage over their competition, the system is rigged for them. If, in the general election, one candidate started off with 75 electoral votes because some unelected people just decided they liked that candidate, I imagine we would call that system rigged in favor of that candidate (even if it is technically possible for their opponent to win). Not only that, but starting off at such a deficit for what would already have been considered a close race is likely to make those who might have voted for Bernie just not bother showing up.
So yes, I’d say the primary was rigged against Bernie. And the Democrats seem to agree, because they got rid of superdelegates for the initial vote, because everyone was pissed.
The DNC used that system FOR DECADES. They didn’t implement it in 2015 to snub Sanders. And as shitty as it was. It was better than what they had before. This, this is why no one rightfully takes you seriously. Or shows any respect. Hyperbolic, disingenuous BS.
4 years.
Neoliberals never let a silly thing like facts get in their way.
They’re just republicans who don’t want the cool kids to hate them.
The fucked up part is theyre the only other option this election, and they know it.
It’s not good enough for them that Biden is better than trump, they want 100% support for all the fucked up shit Biden is doing as well.
they want 100% support for all the fucked up shit Biden is doing as well
Who are you even talking about?
Israel’s Genocide that is only possible because of our unwavering political and military support, probably
And they yell at us for not putting up with their putrid shit. Whatever happened to “push Biden left”
You have? Like, it’s been a clear influence in the policies of his administration. I’m my opinion, it would be pretty short sighted to turn that influence into disdain.
Israel’s extermination of Gazans with our unwavering funding is not a “left” policy
And wouldn’t you know it, there’s a lot more to an administration than their stance on Israel. Stop trying to boil everything down to truisms and catchphrases. If you really don’t think that the left has had a sizeable impact on Biden’s admin, we don’t really have a lot to talk about here.
The left has had a sizeable impact on Biden’s domestic policies. Including the Inflation Reduction Act, American Rescue Plan, and the Bipartisan infrastructure Law.
The Biden administration has been funding and arming the Israeli genocide of Gaza
Both are true. And genocide is the worst thing a country can do. I learned that in 6th grade when we learned about the importance of ensuring “Never Again” re: the Holocaust
Biden supports genocide. Centrists happy.
Americans need to demand a preferential voting system
we need to demand a lot of things.
Yes, and until we get it, we must vote for the least fascist of the to two candidates.
And it’s disappointing because neither of them will want to change the system since they benefit heavily
It is a goddamn primary election and there isn’t oppostion to Biden. Anyone voting uncommitted in the primary is having no actual effect on the general election as Biden will be the nominee no matter what the voters express.
Telling the voters they doth protest too much is electorally a shit strategy.
And shit electoral strategies on behalf of the Democratic Party is how we got Trump once and now likely twice.
the democratic party is just the relief valve after the republicans have their way. ratcheting away towards fascism.
Voting for Biden cause he’s least worst fucking sucks. Dems need to do better, and Trump is what happens because they won’t.
Dems need to stop shoving candidates down peoples throats – this is how a lot of people felt with Hillary.
If Biden wins the general, serves at least 2 years, and resigns for health reasons, Kamala will be an encombant in 2028 and 2032. It could well be 2036 before we get another primary.
I really don’t see Harris winning in 2028 even as an incumbent, I doubt Trump will be running then if he loses this election so the “vote for anyone but trump” gang won’t be there to support the Dems against .
Which party gets the presidency is going to depend less and less on the candidates in coming elections. Demographic shifts are going to push the popular vote further to the Democrats, so what really matters will be the state of Republican voters suppression.
I understand, but it is reality.
So things like donnie are the fault of the Democratic Party?
When you campaign on hope and change only to deliver more of the same and champion the status quo you pave the way for shitheels like trump.
Democrats have very worked hard to maintain the oligarchic status quo furthering the corruption and rot that have led to the current populist/fascist movements.
Donnie doesn’t exist if the dems hadn’t failed in the first place.
Every Election Cycle, vote to keep sky from falling. Before I die, I would like to have a candidate that somewhat aligns with my priorities.
It’s a fucking primary.
This is literally the only point in time we can try to drag Biden too the left, will we get him far enough that he stops being pro-genocide? Probably not, dude is all in on Israel and always has been.
But telling people they don’t even get to vote “not committed” in a fucking meaningless primary is something so undemocratic if you told me it would happen this primary I’d have bet millions on it being republicans.
But then again, I’d have bet billions on them being the ones to pull delegates for something the state party had zero control over.
Not holding Dems to standards may have already fucked the country for good.
It’s a fucking primary
I don’t know why people don’t get this.
Since 2000 progressives have been told to vote for who you want in the primary and then hold your nose in the general.
Now we’re supposed to hold our nose in the primary, too?!
I don’t have enough clothespins for this bullshit.
Now we’re supposed to hold our nose in the primary, too?!
“Behave, or else you get the Orange Turd.” seems to be the message.
The problem is Progressives aren’t offering up any other option. Who am I supposed to vote FOR this time around? “No one” isn’t much of a rallying cry.
Why should they? the DNC will never allow a progressive to be the party candidate. which is why we didn’t have bernie in '16… like the VOTERS WANTED.
Since 2000 progressives have been told to vote for who you want in the primary and then hold your nose in the general.
NH went progressive over party favorite moderate the last two primaries they had that counted…
So this party the DNC said their votes count for nothing, then Biden withdrew and threw money at a write in campaign so the headlines would be “Biden wins even as a write in!”
And not:
“DNC just made NH primary meaningless for something only NH republican officials could change!”
They know this is just a primary.
They’re just conservatives deep down and give zero fucks lying and destroying democracy if they win. And it’s not enough to win, they demand 100% loyalty.
Just like trumpers.
It’s why Dem standards can’t just be “better than a Republican”.
you’re pro genocide
No u.
you clearly have a pro-trump agenda, as evidenced by your comment history…
you’re spam, and pro-genocideYou’ve completely lost the thread.
I’m not trying to defend the “pro genocide” thing at all, although I’m expecting to be down voted regardless, but…
Isn’t support for Israel over Gaza an American / western thing rather than specifically Biden?
Like is it reasonably possible to have a POTUS that wouldn’t support Israel?
I guess they could be more overt in their condemnation of Israel’s behaviour, but I’m not sure how meaningful that is.
Isn’t support for Israel over Gaza an American / western thing rather than specifically Biden?
Biden has spent 50 years calling himself a Zionist and saying nothing will ever make him stop supporting Israel.
It’s hard to think anyone believes that’s normal…
Like is it reasonably possible to have a POTUS that wouldn’t support Israel?
Bernie and every other progressive.
I think part of the problem is that people are so on edge with how close we are to democracy ending. And how fine, and even eager many are to move on to full fascism. It is a primary though. And what really matters is a commitment to defeat fascism in November.
However you don’t do yourself any favors acting like a teenage edge lord. Saying hyperbolic bs like pro-genocide etc etc etc. Biden’s actions on the front are absolutely questionable. Poor strategy wise considering Bibi isn’t going to listen to anyone. And just going to do whatever he wants. So all Biden is likely going to get out of it is a tarnished image. Even if we cut Israel off completely, something Biden can’t do himself. It wouldn’t stop Bibi the butcher. But then it’s always easier to call hyperbolic names than it is to come up with actual working solutions.
Primaries are the place for protest votes. You want to send a message, send it now in the primary.
Come general election, it’s time to shut up and protect the country.
protect the
countryempire
Then stop bombing children, it’s that fucking simple you fucking ghouls.
