For context, I want to run a small personal gig (offering stuff on Patreon). Nothing too fancy.
In order to do that, I would need to use the Adobe suite, Windows, some audio and video effects, all requiring a commercial license.
In theory, I start to make money. How would Microsoft and Adobe know that I don’t pay for their software?
If I use some audio effects, how would their owners even be able to tell / find my work? We’re talking about basic sound effect, like rain, door knocks etc.
I’ve always been confused by this
Chances of getting caught are next to nothing.
If you do get caught, you’re fucked. Like fucked. The legal headaches and costs going up against Adobe or MS will ruin you… forever.
With that said, pirating tools is one thing, but using other people’s loops or artistic work without approval is another matter altogether. And that kind of stuff will land you into all kinds of trouble, not to mention curb your work as talk will quickly get around in the community.
If you’re serious about becoming a musician or artist or a creative selling their work, reputation and community standing is like 90% of it.
And if you’re wondering how can an artist tell? We know our work. And people talk. Share stuff. Sooner or later, it’ll get around. The internet is still powered by people.
You would only likely get caught if you either do something stupid or someone tells Microsoft or Adobe with evidence, even then, the process to grass on them is a ballache, so if someone does actually take the time to do it, then you must have pissed them off so bad you might deserve it.
Why not use FOSS alternatives, or at least say you do?
If your stealing assets and IP, its just a matter of when you get caught, not if.
Name a single person who has been sued by Adobe for pirating their software.
John Ligma
Ah yes, the famous maker of sports equipment.
Ligma Balls?
Can’t do that off the top of my head, but this law firm probably could: https://adobeaudits.com/adobe-audit-faq/
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How about using open source alternatives? Like Gimp or Inkscape?
Not to be a dick, because I agree, but this doesn’t really answer the question.
>User posts a support query for paid software in a piracy sub.
>“Why not use FOSS instead?”
Every single time.
Not everyone has the time and resources to relearn a new piece of software when they already have their workflow sorted out. Nobody asked for FOSS alternatives, it’s a piracy sub.
Besides, shit like GIMP isn’t even half as good as photoshop.
Calm down dude.
Also, I wouldn’t mind people pirating Photoshop for personal purposes, but if you’re going to do this for your business and make a profit off their software, you ought to pay for it.
That’s my opinion.
I use the FOSS stuff to make money with. But if you’re going with Adobe for business, and I used the Adobe suite for over a decade and like it, then pay for it. Not out of some moral nonsense, because I don’t give a shit. But because creating deliverables with pirated software puts your business at serious risk. They don’t really care if you pirate to learn the suite, but once you start making money you pay or they’ll sue you into the ground.
There are plenty of artists who use pirated software to create shit but haven’t got into trouble, the trick is to block the network requests and strip the Metadata.
And MS/Adobe would not go for a small patreon artist because they know that if they go too far, people will be pushed towards their competitors, which they don’t want since their business model hinges on being the most widely used software and thus not allowing any competition to grow.
It’s in the deliverable and the fact that you’re making money with a pirated suite. It exposes you and your business to a lawsuit so expensive you’ll be run out of business for life. It’s like a business and financial death sentence.
This isn’t a moral question. It’s one thing to pirate for personal use, quite another to build a business on pirated software. Especially when the consequences of getting caught are so severe.
There is a theoretical possibility, but you have to be practical. Its upto an individual to decide.
Hey dude, it’s up to the individual. Sure. But know the consequences. These big companies can squash you and your business like a bug. You want that sword of damocles hanging over your financial head? That’s on you.
One thing I notice, all the guys who do this for a living are warning OP about basing a business on pirated software (and assets). It’s only the piracy advocates who say otherwise.
It’s not a moral question for me. Strictly practical.
Plenty of people ignore The Law and have zero repercussions. This IS a piracy board after all
But I’ve also been in situations where we needed to demand proof of a valid license from contractors. That usually is because the company was very strict about dotting every i and so forth (either government work or we wanted governments as clients) or as a “random security assessment” that was really an excuse to stiff someone on the bill because they pissed us off.
At the end of the day, any form of piracy is a risk. You can theoretically be the one person who gets made an example of because you pirated a sniper elite game or something. You probably won’t. But said risk factor goes up exponentially when you are a business (and contractors are businesses).
As for pushing people toward competitors: What competitors? In the video editing space there are arguments that tools like Resolve and the like are competitive with Premier. In terms of 2d art and touch ups? Photoshop has no competition, period. And once you look at the entire Adobe suite… yeah. That is why almost every single youtuber’s “I tried out something that wasnt’ Adobe for a month” almost invariably boils down to “And I went back to Adobe”. All of which also ignores the ease of finding staff who don’t need to learn a whole new toolset.
If OP JUST pirates the Adobe stuff? I know a lot of artists who would still say “Serves them right” because they “play fair” and license everything and, quite honestly, are “okay” with the annual fees because there are new features on the regular. But if OP also steals assets as they said they would: All sympathy goes out the window instantly.
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And Krita.
Like David RevoyAlso Blender? I’m mean if they’re adding sound effects.
Sofie Jantak does 2D stuff in BlenderAlso don’t pirate rain and door knocks, just get them from people who freely share that sort of thing.
Like theseBBC also has a great sound library for sound effects.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Sofie Jantak does 2D stuff in Blender
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
the true path
We should pirate stuff only if no other good open source alternatives are available.
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I’d rather pay for stuff if the creators really deserve it. Like independent video game developers for example. Or I’ll donate to developers who give away their work as well.
If we pirate everything, don’t be surprised if smaller players disappear and only the big ones remain and take advantage of their position.
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How about answering the question that was asked:
How do companies know if I use cracked software or assets for my personal gig?
How about you check your attitude?
It was a simple suggestion made in good faith.
Sometimes, I search for information on how to resolve Windows-related issues because I often assist my relatives and friends with their computer problems. It can be quite exhausting when I come across online discussions on platforms like Reddit or StackOverflow, and instead of finding relevant answers, I encounter responses from individuals suggesting a switch to Linux or something like that. These responses are unrelated to the original question.
So consider your attitude before making simple suggestions “in good faith”. There’s nothing good in it. What you’re doing is not helpful and toxic, even if the toxicity is subtle.
Have you also considered though that this is how knowledge spreads. For every 100 people who read this they might say “here we go again with the FOSS…”, but a handful of people might say “GIMP? What?” and go check it out.
Open discussion instead of strictly direct question and answer is important.
I’ve made the switch to FOSS. When faced with tasks that would only require two clicks in Photoshop, I turn to online searches like “how to do X in GIMP.” However, the results are often in the form of either a 10-minute video or a 10-step article. I’m not engaged in professional work. While I partially agree with your point of view, I find it the suggestion to “consider GIMP and Inkscape” superficial in this context. I could accept it if the person I was responding to had shared useful links or information to aid in the transition: sets of useful plugins, free tutorials, and other resources aimed towards those, who are familiar with Photoshop. Any software is just a tool. The OP’s objective is to accomplish tasks, so it’s natural for them to stick with familiar tools instead of learning new instruments. Consider another thing: if they are professionals in the field, they must have practice and deep knowledge of tools like Photoshop, not GIMP.
Wow… Ok…
Take a chill pill.
I’m chill and polite. I’ve precisely explained what’s wrong with the answer, I wasn’t talking about you. So if you have no counterarguments, just stop arguing. There’s no need to act childish and to try to undermine the other person.
Can’t you just let go already?
I’d also encourage you to look into FOSS alternatives but I have a friend who’s a graphic designer and he’s been pirating the crap out of Adobe since he began his studies in the early 2000s. He says neither he nor any of his collagues (all freelancers) ever had a problem with pirated software. It’s literally unheard of. And if you think about it, how is Adobe gonna find out if you block their phoning home with a firewall? Printers don’t give a damn (and couldn’t tell), neither can clients or random people on the internet. No one is ever going to be “Nice work but can you quickly somehow proof to me that you actually have the ridiculously overpriced subscription for that barely functioning design suite eveyone uses because there’s no alternative (except for Affinity maybe)?”
I got my start shooting drone footage of empty lots for architecture firms, then building 3D models of a proposed building by their plans, and compositing the footage together with motion tracking. First in Maya and then Blender. They’d use that to sell their client. This was just over ten years ago, after I’d burned out as an IT director.
Every one of those architecture firms demanded a written statement affirming licensing of all my software and any external assets used. They also required NDAs for all plans I saw. And that I have a registered business, with a tax code.
I later added motion graphics and animated logo design for small production houses and they all demanded the same.
I also do a lot of mom and pop work, which could go under the radar. But I learned early on to play by the rules. As an IT director I handled licensing audits and those companies are real sticklers. Every little motherfucking thing they can ding you on they will.
This is the real world where pros play.
Username checks out.
If it’s not Adobe your pirating but a small firm consider buying their stuff if you can afford it. Yes, I know this is the piracy forum but just like with indie games I think if you have the money and get value out of it then it’s cool to support actually people, that need to eat. Global Evilcorps surely not, but people are supporting you via Patreon so why not give some of that money to the people who develop the tools that help you make that money …
The moment you start selling things, you transition from “a sternly worded letter” to a lawsuit with insane damages claims.
To break that down:
- Software: Generally speaking, MS/Adobe will probably just assume but won’t care if you are a small enough fry. And in a patreon context, you are probably fine as far as customers. But for “real” gig work, you might get asked to sign a document saying you are legit. At one of my old companies we would generally have contractors sign a legal document saying that they were legit so that we have a paper trail to blame it all on them.
- Assets: One, people can generally smell an asshole from a mile away. But if you must steal the work of others and sell it as your own, be aware that the same tools used for DMCA takedowns on youtube and twitch (computer vision to detect copyrighted images, audio analysis for songs, etc) work here too. And while I have no idea what handsome devil is doing it, there are tools to scrape the various crowdfunding sites since patreon and the like tend to be cool about taking stuff down. So good luck advertising that.
As for what you can do to minimize your risk and not be a piece of shit?
- Open source equivalents of software. If you want a “real job” you are going to need to learn and use adobe. But there is a lot of value in knowing a few different tools and getting started with an open source or cheaper workflow is a great idea. Check Humble Bundle for the latter since they tend to sell the B/C tier stuff for cheap every few months
- Royalty Free assets. Check the licensing terms but these are usually pay once assets that you can then use until the end of time and even resell. Hell, a lot are completely free.
And, because it was suggested below
- Use pirated software but pretend it is open source: Like it or not, the gap between something like gimp and photoshop is massive. There is a reason that adobe have a stranglehold on “art” related fields and that is because they put the work in. And a lot of their tools are VERY distinctive to people who understand those workflows. Which, combined with being the kind of asshole who steals the work of real artists to sell on your own, is a good recipe to “get called out” by someone tipping off their buddy at Adobe.
One, people can generally smell an asshole from a mile away.
Can confirm. I can smell assholes from far away too.
most of the applications ‘phone home’, often constantly after installation. often, source files will include a serial number embedded in metadata in source projects, that can be traces to a license.
there are many methods, but if you protect yourself (air gapped equipment) and cleanse your output you should be ok. that said, there are new techniques out/on the horizon with embedded data that would not be removable.
If you are so concerned, why not use alternatives
I’ve been working on a computer with pirated software for almost two decades. Graphic design, video,… There is no way anyone could know our care.
You really shouldn’t answer questions you clearly don’t know the answer to. There a dozens of ways for apps to report your license status. Most people just don’t know about it.
You can look at a MS Word doc someone sends you and detect the license. Apps can phone home all the time to report your status. Just because you’ve never noticed ot or no one ever caught you doesn’t mean there’s ‘no way’.
I honestly am baffled when people take time to type this type of crap out and post it. You clearly do not know, but you posted it anyway AS IF IT WAS FACT, despite it being provably false.
Don’t be angry now friend. It’s all good. I’ve written the pragmatic answer, you’ve written the theoretical one. We all have our ways. I respect you.
If they ever do find out, they’ll sue you and your business into the ground. Either pay for it or find an alternative.
I paid for Resolve Studio and use FOSS tools. Mostly because I regularly render on the cloud and FOSS gives me the freedom to do this legally without licensing hassles. IMO, it’s not even the cost, it’s the compliance hoops that make commercial software so onerous to run on clusters.
If on Win or Mac, the Affinity Suite and Resolve are good alternatives. If on Linux, my experience is to break up asset creation between GIMP for cutouts and background creation and Krita for compositing. Neither on their own come close to Ps but together they get much closer. GIMP has the better clone stamp and heal tool, and fantastic guideline support, while Krita has nondestructive adjustment filters and layer styles for nondestructive text effects. Inkscape is excellent, like 90% of Ai.
Finally, your clients. I sell works for hire. Once my clients pay, they get all the original files plus deliverables. That they can use free tools to change assets matters to some of them. It gives them the freedom to hire someone else, or do it themselves, or just trust me that I’m not fucking them by stringing them along. Use Adobe and you can’t sell that to your clients.
But everything depends on who your clients are and what they need. Big corporate clients won’t care about that. So every business plan is different and tailored to its target client.
Idgaf about pirating huge corpos stuff. Thats always moral. But don’t steal SFX and the like, theres just too much of it for free.
If you earn/get big enough to care about it, then you would in the first place. Most software piracy busting methods revolves around existence of a snitch who knows you’re pirating. You definitely can get away with it if you’re just pirating it yourself, but a corporation with like 100 workers cannot do it when all it takes is one person to get busted.
On sound effects / samples it depends on how many people see it, so you don’t need to worry too much unless you get popular similarly.
In general they wont. The way they usually find out with small businesses is disgruntled former employees snitching (some actually offer a reward for this).
I was once hired at a company to get them ISO compliant (8001, 27001 and various other certifications specific for data storage and handling for banks and healthcare).
First thing I did was run inventory on all hard and software and it was quickly clear they ran 50 something unlicensed Windows and Office copies, 3 unlicensed Windows Server copies, 2 unlicensed Exchange copies, a whole bunch of unlicensed Winzip copies and on and on and on.
The typical with small to mid sized businesses.
You absolutely need to get your licensing in order if you want to get those certifications, especially the banking and healthcare data ones.
I made them a list of everything we’d have to acquire to be in order with that part.
They refused. They refused to the point of telling me “it’s not working out and we’re letting you go”.
So, yeah, that’s how you get Microsoft to hear about a company running a couple hundred unlicensed products :)
They never got their ISO certs and downsized considerably a year or two later.
How do you even tell the difference between a licensed vs unlicensed windows install?
Because pirated versions will be running a VLK license while there is no VLK subscription on file or run a KMS software to fake the authentication of licenses.
Or in some cases, just run pure unlicensed and Windows will tell you on the desktop itself that the copy is unlicensed.
If inspected, you have to prove you have the correct licenses.
In some cases you’ll be allowed to just buy the licenses there and then, but if you’ve been running dozens of unlicensed copies or dozens of straight up illegal copies (with faked/cracked/stolen licenses), they’ll put the hammer down and you’ll be audited in detail to the point they’ll end up billing AND fining you for every piece of software you’ve used in your entire history.
They don’t. But if you get big and along the way in a throwaway comment on Patreon mentioned you use the Adobe Suite and other tools they’ll look into that and if you don’t pay they’ll send a very stern letter demanding payment.
Generally for Joe Schmo if they’re found out it stops at a letter demanding payment, and if you don’t pay it likely won’t escalate, especially if you deny the accusation. But for someone making a profit they’ll get their money and it’s a major headache and just not worth it considering you are making money far exceeding the rather small cost.
For assets, you would be distributing other people’s work without permission. Some companies scan online content for digital fingerprints of copyrighted material. Think Youtube content ID but they are other tools out there.
As for software you used without a license, the work you did doesn’t matter in that regard, you’re only liable for using unlicensed software by bypassing copyright protection methods. You’re not distributing it. Their DRM (even cracked) might send them enough identifiable information to sue you (in theory).
Adobe genuine service I guess. Use something like simplewall or postmaster to block them from accessing the internet or block them via the built-in firewall.
Edit: Giving away exported content is fine but be careful with the project files. They can’t figure out in what software and image or video was made in as long as you check the metadata. But project files can probably give you away.
In theory, some busybody would have to report you for it.
