It feels all but certain that I won’t be able to enjoy a prosperous life or get to retire. All of the wealth is going straight to the top. All of the opportunities to move up in the world are being rug-pulled. All of the federal agencies that help keep us safe and healthy are gone. The social safety net is getting flushed down the toilet. We will live in disease and squalor, and the most vulnerable of us will die.
Because I dared to not be a sociopath, I and anyone else who voted for sanity will be deemed enemies of the state and hunted down - which won’t be hard, because it would be trivial to build the most robust surveillance state in human history if it doesn’t exist already.
I myself have disabilities (which I don’t think qualify for benefits) that make it hard, but not impossible, to find a job. The problem is that I just can’t bring myself to do it because I don’t get what the fucking point is anymore. I have to work so hard to get out of this rut just for some fascist fuck to kill me or toss me into a torture facility before I can even experience life on my own.
Have you been in a similar headspace and were able to escape it? If so, what snapped you out of it?
Log out of social media, go outside, interact with real people. Life is not remotely as bad as all that, it just seems that way because social media has told you to be scared. Humans are extremely adaptable, we will overcome whatever the problems are.
Frankly, in my experience the social media has been unreasonably optimistic
Most of the struggles and worries come from real-life expriences
Meanwhile real people: oh you are disabled? Fuck off, and die alone!
Like, are you describing heaven or something?
Like, are you describing heaven or something?
No, just sane parts of the world.
This needs to be an auto comment on every post in Lemmy.
Humans are extremely adaptable, we will overcome whatever the problems are.
Many die so others get to live. I am sure the dead ones are happy for you🤡
It still gets cold outside. If you don’t work you’ll live there
Many people do work and live out there.
Honestly, it sounds like you’ve been spending too much time in some online communities that are doom posting about everything. Do things suck right now? Yes, but they’ve literally sucked for as long as human society has existed. Things can always be better, or always be worse. However you can’t just sit around passively waiting for the times to change, or your life will suck.
The single biggest factor in whether your life is good or not is you and your actions. Don’t let things outside of your control convince you to give up. Do the best with what you have, and I promise you that you can find fulfillment and happiness in the life available to you.
Honestly, it sounds like you’ve been spending too much time in some online communities that are doom posting about everything. Do things suck right now? Yes, but they’ve literally sucked for as long as human society has existed.
Ah. I was worried for a second he may have been stuck in places that are only pessimistic doom posting. Good to know that life sucks now, and has always sucked. That’s the positive message we need right now.
Either that or a god damned pitchfork…
Yeah… it feels like what my mother used to say when I was a kid. “People have it worse than you in <insert country here>.” Like okay, things suck and have always sucked. Doesn’t really nullify his feelings though that they suck right now and they’re having a hard time. Just feels kinda dismissive. The rest of it is fine but that part just bugs me.
It’s contextualizing, things suck, that’s real and gets acknowledged, not dismissed, they can suck more and probably do for other people, this is also real. It doesn’t make the suck you are experiencing magically better but it does put into a wider context and helps to show that you, likely, aren’t at rock bottom without any hope. Your actions and headspace matter. They won’t magically make everything great, but they can easily be the difference between bad and legitimately “ok” or better.
You’re right, I’ve definitely been doomscrolling way too much.
I think the biggest thing holding me back is the idea that it is too late to do anything because my life could effectively be over in less than a few months. I see lots of people dooming about fascist purges and the end of societal function and think, “Well, how do I know for sure that they’re wrong? I don’t know enough about society to make a solid prediction either way.”
And so my brain thinks “There is a reasonable chance that my life is over (or at least the ladder to make any life progress gets pulled up) in a few months. If everything I do is all for naught, then why bother?” It’s a belief that I have no long-term agency.
I think that in order to move forward, I have to disprove the idea of me being targeted in a fascist purge and complete economic collapse happening anytime soon with reasonable certainty. Are those sound predictions, or are they just nightmares dreamt up by a bunch of armchair historian doomers exaggerating how quickly these things happen? Is the theory that the “day one mass deportations” include all known political dissidents actually possible, or are the logistics too insane to work? That’s what I have to figure out, or else I will likely continue to believe that I am helpless.
In other words, I think it’s quite plausible that I’m reading misinformation, but the fact that I don’t know it for sure is preventing me from dismissing it outright.
Thank you for the thoughtful reply!
I recommend the It Could Happen Here podcasts from after election day. I’m not caught up, but the three I listened to acknowledge the terror of the situation we’re in while also trying to put things like mass deportation in context. It’s going to be so unbelievably expensive. So no I don’t think dissidents like you or myself are on the list, yet.
First off, let me say that I see a close to zero chance that society will collapse in a matter of months or that there will be mobs out to kill disabled people.
America has reached a turning point and is certainly starting to spiral, but these kinds of radical changes you’re talking about take a long time to happen. People revolt violently when they can no longer afford bread, and the US is nowhere close to that.
Quality of life is declining, job opportunities are diminishing, but America is so far away from bread lines that it’s just not going to happen in the short term. Remember the elites DON’T WANT social collapse. That’s very bad for business! They will gamble with our future and with the prosperity of the country for a little more over and over, but they want to keep the system up and held together with duct tape as long as possible or their profits fall too.
So yes, there is real turmoil, but nothing is coming to an end tomorrow, next month, or next year. Keep educating yourself, but stay positive and do what you can to enact change.
Just my 2 cents, but the logistics part is substantial. Our jails and prisons are already overflowing (with the highest incarceration rate of the global north) so there’s no quick process that is feasible. We should have plenty of warning as to what’s coming down the works… as for having the means and ability to do anything about it? We shall see.
You’re not helpless unless you don’t take action. Build your community and celebrate the small wins. Find meaningful work(even volunteering) and build more connections to others. Having some of that to fall back on has kept me saner lately, and now I’m driven to focus more on that, least for the short term.
Consider the fact that you can change your life slowly with concerted effort. It helps me!
Yeah this is catastophizing. Sure it’s bad. Does it mean certain death? No. Is it the quest country to live in? Certainly not. Just stay focused. Find the best job you can, and don’t be a slave to them. It’s business, not family. You’ll make it through. While you’re making some money and have some mental and financial bandwidth, think about your next move. Be patient and try not to panic. It’s going to be okay in the long term.
However there definitively have been times that were better before they got much worse, and I’d argue that today is one of those times
On big difference today has compared to, say, 10 years ago, is that 10 years ago there was much more hope for… well… hope. Today? Well, things are going to get much worse before they get better, if they ever do.
There is nothing that says the future must always get better just because historically it for the most part have. Sometimes the most rational thing to do is to indeed prepare for the possibility that things will get much worse. Otherwise you end up with a situation like how people today wonder why more Jews didn’t move out from pre-war germany
People think that problems shouldn’t exist, and that the authorities should have fixed it, and it’s killing their motivation to live.
There is no authority. There is how you want to live your life, and who you want to be. We are in the anarchy. You live your live according to your principles, and that works for you or doesn’t. We all want and can sometimes even have a nice situation, but underneath it, nature is metal - and we haven’t “grown out of it”.
Guillotine Party!
Universal healthcare, securities tax, punitive top-tier income tax. We can get rid of these parasites like we got rid of the robber barons, or we can do it like the French got rid of their first and second estate.
The amounts of copium in this thread are extinction-level.
Everything you just said is 100% valid and you are simply correct.
The thing is, it’s not a measure of a healthy mind to thrive in a profoundly sick society where the worst of the worst have won long ago.
There’s this thing called depressive realism which posits that depressed people, by and large, perceive reality much closer to how it really is than neurotypical people.
Essentially, “normal” people have an (innate or learned) positivity bias. Which is usually a good thing. People like us are the outliers.
But positivity bias in a world where it’s actually harmful is another thing. The majority of people are walking headlong into their own extinction while going “Ehh, it’s not so bad”, while we should ALL be positively irate and picketing the homes (not companies) of our owner class 24/7.
But it hasn’t happened yet and at this point I don’t know how bad things need to get before people realize what’s going on.
As long as people have something to entertain themselves and something to eat, nothing will change. Even the Ancient Romans knew that: “Two things only the people anxiously desire — bread and circuses.”.
Ah so that’s why bread and games increases loyalism in Civ6 ;)
Mass starvation is historically the usual trigger for revolution. Not always though.
Yeah when people are back to eating grass and dying of malnutrition usually they eat there way through the roots of civilization.
Only those that understand a problem even have a chance to solve it. Those who refuse to understand a problem (often for comfort) are not helpful at best, but usually actively harmful.
The problem of suffering runs far deeper than “Rich vs Poor”. We are all trapped inside constantly decaying bodies that are barely capable of survival. This constant decay leads to almost constant pain even billionaires can not avoid. And then there is our anxious brain worrying about all sorts of things that might or might not happen. Yes, all of this is more bearable inside a villa than inside a tent, but it is still abhorrent. This does not mean the “Rich vs Poor” struggle is not worth while. It is, because there is tremendous preventable suffering within this struggle. This struggle, however, is just a tiny fraction of the problem that is called the human condition.
To those who seek to understand the problem of suffering, i can recommend this video. It eases you into the horror of being alive.
I enjoy eating and air conditioning. Gotta work for it.
Yeah, I mean it all really depends on how you define work… people don’t usually quantify their free time properly
MVW… Minimal Viable Work. Companies think only they can deliver shit? Just deliver the bare minimum… as they
don’tdo with their customers.Companies don’t care us, why should we care about them.
You know what’s better than the bare minimum? Give your work more than they expect, but keep some of your potential to yourself. Only give work 70% and keep that other 30% of yourself for yourself. You get all of the benefits of being an overachiever with none of the drawbacks.
You know your job is as safe as it can be because you’re exceeding expectations, and you can reap the bonuses and pride that brings but you still have remaining capacity to do more in your personal time. Plus if you’re not completely applying yourself every day you can hit the grindstone on a really bad day when SHTF and really come out looking like a hero
I feel you, but you need to remember that the world is generally a pretty chaotic place and predicting the future when complex systems pass tipping points and transition to new equilibria (as they are at the moment) is pretty difficult.
Invest in yourself, your ability to cope with new and unfamiliar things, and build resilience. Resilience being the ability to bounce forward when you hit rocky patches. Don’t expect to bounce back and end up where you left off, but learn to adjust to the chaos where you need to.
Develop your capabilities until you have a sense of being a competent, worthwhile and dependable person outside of the circus going on around us. Someone that isn’t quite so dependent on the big bad system we are often forced to be part of.
I have personal goals in life I want to reach and I’m going to do whatever it takes to do so. Try laying out your life goals… What do I want to do 5, 10, 20 years in the future? Then you make a plan to achieve those goals, keeping in mind employment with inevitably be on that path. It can be seen as a means to an end or more depending on how you shape your view.
Do you want to do a minimum wage job where you feel like you’re a worthless drone, or do you want a more meaningful career that could maybe even turn in to something more? You have the option to pave your own path. If you look at a job as nothing more than wage slavery, then those are the only jobs you are going to find. The companies that pay well and/or offer good benefits are definitely out there and they want people with skills who are motivated and reliable. Everyone has the chance for their big break, but it will never come if you don’t work for it. Also not every place to work is a faceless corporation, there’s a lot of small businesses out there needing talented people too, and those are often the sweetest deals as long as the business owner(s) care to keep their people happy. There’s such a thing as working for a company that you believe in and want to see succeed for a greater reason than bumping up your own paycheck.
There’s also such a thing as working a job and doing what you like doing at the same time. I work with computers. Do it at work, do it at home too. I enjoy all of it, I lean new stuff every day and I make a good living doing what I consider to be fairly mentally stimulating but also rewarding work. Sure, it is pretty stressful at times, but there’s always a light around the corner.
I’ve found that things have a way of working out, no matter how shitty things might look. Live your life for you and the ones you love, if you have to grease some corporate palms along the way or do some jobs you don’t necessarily love to get by, that’s just the way of things. The system is just kinda designed to work like that. Are you going to let that stop you? I personally say hell fucking no.
I see one of the most powerful and defining traits of human beings to be our adaptability. You have the power to handle just about anything the world has to throw at you, whether you realize it or not.
I’m not sure if you have any kind of faith, but it honestly helps. I’m not a religious person but I’ve found that having faith in myself and in the ones I love the most to be a very rewarding/fulfilling part of my life. I’ve found you have to find your own light in life, no one else will necessarily do that for you. Building a plan for your future and executing it is daunting and there will be adversity, but you can handle it. Balance out the hard/mentally taxing stuff with whatever it is that makes you truly happy.
The system has failed, but we still have to live within it. There’s a positive though, if we play our cards right and use the system to our advantage to the best of our ability, we will have enough smart and skilled like-minded people down the road and we can band together to beat the system. The next revolution, whatever form it takes, will require all kinds of different talent from many different walks of life.
I have personal goals in life I want to reach and I’m going to do whatever it takes to do so. Try laying out your life goals… What do I want to do 5, 10, 20 years in the future?
As a relatively young person but older than OP myself, this is exactly what I did to get out of the slump of knowing how the system is stacked against us all. I set myself goals, and kept updating my goals. I had a 6 month, 1 year and 3 year plan at any point. Longer than 3 years it’s hard to set specific goals because too much can change in that time frame. I always had goals to work towards and make myself a better version of me. If you can continually be a better version of yourself than you were before then you’ve won the game of life
I continue to live because the goal of the system you described is to kill us. As long as we still breathe, they haven’t yet won completely, and we still have an opportunity to chuck spanners into the gears to try and slow the enshittification. The bastards in power are the smuggest, shittiest, most vile excuses for human life on this planet, and any drop of satisfaction we can deny them is a victory.
“toss me into a torture facility”
What? Step away from the internet for a while.
I’m really pissed off right now, at both US political parties, at human nature, at a lot of things, so this may not be the best time for me to sound off on a question like this. This may go long. I get into some grizzly topics like Suicide, the Holocaust and how laziness is a fake thing invented by capitalists and Calvinists.
So I learned early on the fucked up nature of capitalism and the laziness rhetoric accompanied with the Protestant work ethic. My parents were glad to criticize my avolition (that’s the medical term for the symptom of not wanting to do anything), but then I was suffering from neglect on account that they both worked full work weeks and were too exhausted to parent.
This is to say, mental illness and family dysfunction often are intergenerational. They were also driven by their parents to work themselves to exhaustion, and they did, and I became a stereotypical gen-x latchkey kid. Anyway, Mom tried an experiment, of paying me by the chore rather than a weekly allowance while I’d have regular house-chore duties. She’d then not pay me if my work was not up to snuff, and I learned quickly that all my efforts couldn’t get it to snuff (I really tried, but I was a kid, and she wasn’t good at telling me what she wanted). Resigned to have no allowance, I stopped working, entirely, and that just wouldn’t do.
I wouldn’t be diagnosed with Major Depression until my adulthood, and I’d discover that at my most symptomatic, I could lay down in bed for months, barely able to get up to eat or poop and having the libido of a lump of granite and the inertia of a neutron star.
Contrast the people who lucked out in The Great Resignation of 2021. During the COVID-19 Lockdown, people defied their industrialist bosses and Calvinist ministers and found they could not couch potato out for more than a week or two without getting a severe case of cabin fever. (People who winter in high-snow areas already know this phenomenon, and Steven King’s The Shining is inspired by centuries of worst case scenarios.) Most people took up hobbies, turned their houses into lego parks, took up wood carving or cooking or something, and a lot of those things became marketable skills, hence a lot of Take this job and shove it and a sudden dearth of people willing to suffer abuse, toxic workspaces and a less-than-sustenance wage.
Laziness isn’t a thing. If someone is healthy and happy, they’ll do all the chores. Granted some chores are tedious or arduous or hazardous. In my pinko communist fantasies, I imagine we take some queues hfrom Power Wash Simulator until we figure out how to automate the process, and then automate the maintenance and repair of the machines that do that job, then automate maintenance of the bots that do the maintenance and repair until one guy keeps an eye on the one dial while writing poetry.
Speaking of communism, Marx predicted enshiffication of products and jobs in Das Kapital and our industrialist masters made it clear they liked it when the working class was living in Hoover towns (of cardboard boxes and paint cans) and eating flour paste (and dying of malnutrition). And they don’t mind at all that their employees need food stamps and are living in their car (and sleeping roughly).
There’s a cute bit in the John Scalzi short story Morning Announcements at the Lucas Interspecies School for Troubled Youth where the announcer (not the principal) is talking about the graduating class, and his well wishes and high hopes for them. And then he notes one species_who will, after graduation, be bussed to the downtown stadium to begin mating challenges that will leave nine out of ten of you dead…_
That’s us. Human beings, in capitalism. There’s never enough work. Allegations of meritocracy imply that the least of us will be unfit and will be disposed of like Spartans tossing their imperfect infants into the Kaiadas cave chasm to perish on the rocks. The beggars, widows and orphans we’re supposed to watch out for (and is why Sodom was firebombed in myth) we leave to languish in homelessness, or in prison for failing to fit in and work hard enough.
And here in the states that class of undesirables continues to expand.
Granted more than 10% of us persevere, but somewhere between 66% and 88% of US households live in precarity, which means they worry every night about whether the next week is their last. Most of us are not within the hunky-dory threshold, by far.
In my case, staring blankly at the recent US general election results, I know I don’t want to end up homeless, or arrested and in a detention center (whether stuck in a crowded cell, compelled to forced labor or awaiting my turn in the genocide machine). I’m far away from these outcomes for the moment, but the coming administration makes my fate a lot more unpredictable. So I’m looking for an L-pill or other functional exit strategy, in case I need to evade arrest once I am unpersoned.
And this has led me to an interesting discovery. Society doesn’t want to think about its casualties. I deal with suicidality every day. Usually it’s just considering it. But even professional therapists tend to freak out when I talk about it. Also, in the aughts, I went on a deep dive into the Holocaust, what steps were taken from the concentration camps started by Heydrich’s Sicherheitsdienst to the Pogroms along the eastern front to the massive extermination machine of Auschwitz. So I’m familiar that societies don’t mind deaths when they happen quietly in the cold, or in the systems. They mind them when they’re out front and messy and require a lot of cleanup. This is why self-immolation protests are terrifying, and even though there’s not enough of them to change hearts and minds, they are a wake up call that our autocratic masters fear.
In reality, the US is suffering from a suicide epidemic. Our rate (about 40K a year in the 2010s and climbing) is worse than Japan (who is much more okay with suicide, though they’re trying to change that) and worse than Russia (Russia’s having a no-good very bad…Putin). For every one dead body from suicide, another three or four end up in the emergency room for trying, but survive, or are stopped by a friend. Also we’re pretty sure some families will obfuscate the cause of death and attribute it to accident (or in David Carradine’s case, literal ninjas) so they don’t have to deal with the public questions about suicide.
But curiously life does suck for most of us, and we’re waiting our turn in the showers, or out in the cold, or ultimately for the water to run out so we can’t make enough food.
I’m not going to advocate harming yourself or others, but I will say playing by the rules is silly, and there’s no way they’ll let you into the cool kids club. Ever. You were never meant to win. Go arty. Go renegade. Go crazy. Go unpredictable.
I’m tired. I’ll give this a grammar pass later.
Ever play “Hardspace: shipbreaker” or “viscera cleanup”?
Both!
TL;DR: The following is going to be dark and harsh but it all comes down to one thing. Life doesn’t get better, you get better at dealing with shit. Hang in there.
You need to disconnect and find a way to focus on you.
It feels like the entire system is a scam and it’s pointless to even try.
It has always been a game where the only way to win is to cheat. Always.
It feels all but certain that I won’t be able to enjoy a prosperous life or get to retire.
The system is not setup with rest (retirement) as its main goal. The system is setup for you to play until you die. Even if you hoard more money than you and your descendants could possibly spend in a hundred years, you would likely still want to play, because you are winning. If your end goal is mere prosperity and retirement, then you should prepare to be under the boot and a slave until you die.
All of the wealth is going straight to the top.
Always has been the case. It hasn’t stopped people from finding a way.
All of the opportunities to move up in the world are being rug-pulled.
This has always been the case. You have to make your own opportunities and expect others to drag you down. We are all crabs in a bucket.
All of the federal agencies that help keep us safe and healthy are gone. The social safety net is getting flushed down the toilet.
Fantasy. These things has never existed in this country. At best, FDR gave us a yoga mat to land on when we fall off a cliff, where before it was a bed of nails. Fall hard enough in this country and you will get wrecked no matter what. It has always been that way.
We will live in disease and squalor, and the most vulnerable of us will die.
Same as it ever was.
Because I dared to not be a sociopath, I and anyone else who voted for sanity will be deemed enemies of the state and hunted down - which won’t be hard, because it would be trivial to build the most robust surveillance state in human history if it doesn’t exist already.
Take a breath. Here is a truth that will sound harsh but it is meant as a kindness. You do not matter. Just about nobody knows you exist. Nobody is coming to get you. This fact applies to almost everyone.
Since all we can do is live the life we perceive with the meat in our skull, we tend to see ourselves as the main character in the story of life. We’re not. We barely qualify for NPC status.
I myself have disabilities (which I don’t think qualify for benefits) that make it hard, but not impossible, to find a job.
That’s a problem, I am sorry. All problems have a solution, but one unlikely to be found here, with Internet strangers.
The problem is that I just can’t bring myself to do it because I don’t get what the fucking point is anymore. I have to work so hard to get out of this rut just for some fascist fuck to kill me or toss me into a torture facility before I can even experience life on my own.
Again. Breathe homie. That’s not going to happen.
Have you been in a similar headspace and were able to escape it?
100%…often. I have lived with chronic, sometimes crippling, depression and fairly severe PTSD since 1989. Long story short, a lot of trauma broke my brain. Combo that with ADHD, borderline personality disorder, heart disease and cancer, and we are living the life baby! Still, I have been able survive and rise from poverty to wealth without hurting too many people…I hope.
If so, what snapped you out of it?
Nothing did. I just kept getting up out of spite and contempt for this life. As time went on, i got used to it. The bullshit bothered me less until it just became background noise. A nuisance from time to time.
you do not matter
You have no idea how much I needed to hear that right now
Wonderful response, and I agree completely. It echoes the thoughts I’ve tried to convey to friends in their 20s, but much more eloquently than I have managed.
But society has to find you good enough to utilize, no? How does one manage that, when innate metrics like appearance is a huge part of it?
Barring special circumstances, the looks you are born with matter very little. What matters more is your presentation.
First, take care of your skin suit. It is the only one you own, it’s the one you have to wear, and it is the one everyone else interacts with. Hygiene. Grooming. Basic fitness. This doesn’t mean that you have to have a specific body type. This means that whatever body type you have, it has to be healthy. You can be heavy built and be fit and healthy. If you do not take care of yourself, why would some trust you to take care of them or their stuff?
Second, you have to prepare excessively. I always assume that I am not ready, so I over prep. Being prepared fills you with confidence. Being confident makes other comfortable and helps them trust you. There is no such thing as being too ready.
Third, keep your mouth shut and listen. Do not just hear…listen. This helps you better understand your situation, what others need, what to avoid, etc. When you do finally open your mouth, speak clearly, succinctly, and with confidence because you now know what is needed and you came prepared.
Bottom line is that, like all magic tricks, it is all about the prep work.
Ah I am sorry… I always forget that I am in literal third world country so my experience is not general.
you unironically just have to cope with it in whatever way makes sense to you
I personally think of my career as: “some things I do are interesting and keep me from blowing my brains out, the rest I don’t care about”
when it comes to the company I work for: I treat everyone I meet well, no corporate bs, no yes sir yes ma’am. I do whatever I’m assigned and meet deadlines
but I never go above and beyond (because of burnout)
everything you’ve thought about hard work = reward or better pay is a scam
put everything into work-life balance and when you go home focus on things you really want to do, such as hobbies or hang outs
don’t do unpaid overtime, don’t bend over for anyone, don’t offer yourself up when shit goes down
you want to be as invisible as possible while not burning out AND not working your ass off (everyone has different standards for what this means)
tldr: just find some way to cope because there isn’t really anything else you can do
TL; DR Get in on the scam.
Pick something you like to do, or have a talent for, and plan a path to make money from it. You may still have to work for someone else initially, to develop skills and get experience, but it will be better than doing a shit job only for money.
Research what resources there are to support your startup. Even in places where there is no help from government or anything else for individuals, you will find they want to support business.
Especially if you have extra challenges, if you get good, they will make a narrative around your success and promote you as an example.