not helping lemmy’s extremist-leaning reputation guys
Pointing out who the Nazis are and where to find them isn’t extremist.
Telling other people to commit premeditated murder is, and it’s all over this thread + the original (which I think was taken down).
I didn’t tell anybody to commit murder. I’m just watching hopefully.
Ok, I have those thoughts sometimes too, especially when I’m angry and hopeless. I usually cut them off because ultimately I don’t think I have the right to kill people outside of the context of a war etc. But there’s nothing illegal about thinking. Clarence Darrow: “I’ve never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure".
A lot of folks are calling for actual violence though. It’s all over the thread. Incitement is different than just wishing Trump and his cronies would croak.
I am genuinely curious why do you think that you have a right to kill someone in war but not outside of it. Like what are the main differences there (unless you are using law as a basis for this)
No worries. War is unavoidable at times - dictators exist, people get desperate, and so on. There are legalities involved, and they are a concern but aren’t my main concern. Morally, there’s a difference to me between killing someone because I hate them and killing someone because I’m a combatant and so are they. There are strict rules to war that help are supposed to keep things largely ethical - I understand war is never going to be “clean”. Policies like rules of engagement, being able to surrender, treatment of POWs, genuinely avoiding targetting civilians (the world could use more of that right now) and stopping when your country tells you to all matter to me.
Soldiers are not asked to make decisions about who they’ll kill (I mean which armies, not rules of engagement), so the individuals are not being relied upon to determine justice. That is a big difference from vigilantism, where a person or mob of people decides who lives and dies. Ideally the leaders of the military and country are making sure war is a necessary last resort and conducted according to rules, and if that isn’t happening then other nations should be condemning and opposing them. It’s like how I think nations need prisons, but I don’t think I should be allowed to take someone hostage because I’m pretty sure they deserve it.
But haven’t you seen countless cases of examples where those strict rules for war have been completely ignored? Russia is just ignoring them completely in Ukraine, Israel is just straight-up conducting a genocide and no western country gives a shit apparently, for the US there are countless cases of shit like the My Lai massacre or the US sponsorships of terrorist organisations in South America…
States are just big systems that exist to give people a monopoly on violence.
Edit: I misunderstood the person’s position. I think others might have as well, so I’m leaving up my response to an idea that unjust wars make vigilantism necessary/moral. However, as near as I can tell that their actual position isn’t “people should be able to kill outside a war”, it’s “why should people ever think killing is moral”.
Russia IS being opposed by to the tune of billions of dollars of support and widespread condemnation for their war of aggression including meaningful economic sanctions and asset seizures. It’s facilitated the killing of just under 700,000 Russian soldiers and tons of equipment according to the Ukrainian government. The only reason NATO won’t deploy troops is because no one wants WW3. Nations are even now considering escalating their support following the deployment of North Koreans.
Israel IS being opposed by huge swathes of the world. If the US (and to a lesser extent other Western countries) weren’t providing diplomatic and military cover for them, they’d have been censured in the UN for decades now and potentially stopped. Long story short, the US is just as at fault for the genocide as Israel due to providing the diplomatic/military means via decades of “blank check” support. US policy doesn’t mean that civilians should start killing Zionists in America and abroad.
I’m not a warmonger, quite the opposite. I won’t take the stance that civilians should believe they have the moral obligation to murder other civilians because wars are sometimes unjust. There are unjust trials. Doesn’t mean people shouldn’t have the right to a trial before they’re killed. There are bad politicians, doesn’t mean all politics should be banned. There are bad marriages. There are bad police. There are bad doctors.
Anti-fascist action is self-defense.
The Proud Boys and other militias believe the exact same thing, just swap anti-fascist for anti-traitors who are “the enemy within”. You are proving each other’s point, two sets of extremists advocating for whatever it takes, with both POSITIVE they’re doing the right thing.
Not on the side of killing people here but one side wants to kill minorities and other groups while the other wants to kill people who want to kill minorities.
Would you say painting WWII Nazis as evil and fighting a war against them is the same as them invading Poland to subjugate the natives?
one side wants to kill minorities and other groups while the other wants to kill people who want to kill minorities.
A 2nd response after thinking about that part of your question: Both sides want to kill millions, without trial, on the basis of perceived danger. Each is absolutely certain they’ll know who should die. There’s no moral high ground. No rules of war, no official oversight, just civilians murdering their countrymen in large numbers. Demands that, if acted upon, will escalate into enormous bloodshed without giving less destructive, more legal barriers a chance. The people pushing violence are unrepentantly promoting the idea that “if they want to kill then we’ll kill them first”.
BTW, neither side is going to kill millions unless their actions incite a civil war. Neither side is going to have the public support they think they do. What they will do is make sure things like martial law happen. If you think enough New Yorkers, Californians, etc are marching to Illinois and Florida to kill all the fascists then you’re mistaken. The US outside of Lemmy and other forums may be angry, but they aren’t anywhere near that mindset of “uproot my life and kill other Americans”. I’m Canadian and I don’t want to see the US military devolve into the mess of full-on civil war, but some people either dismiss the possibility or actually want it.
Would you say painting WWII Nazis as evil and fighting a war against them is the same as them invading Poland to subjugate the natives?
I wouldn’t say that, but I understand why you’d ask. The Nazis weren’t opposed by sending any civilian angry enough into Germany to shoot civilians they thought were fascists. When Germany invaded Poland, other countries formally declared war (although it took several months before they actually engaged in combat.) Nazis were brought down by armies, not the equivalent of the portion of Lemmy/Reddit/TikTok users willing to engage in mob justice. In another comment I wrote why I think formal war with rules of war is different than vigilante killing. In a 2nd, I said that if it comes down to army vs. army civil war I’d say fight hard. In yet another, I told someone they were trying to be the WW2 Allies without the army or mandate.
I also wrote about the likely consequence of vigilante killings including handing Trump and the extreme right all the excuses they could ever want, sabotaging legitimate efforts opposing/delaying Trump by organizations like the Pentagon and state governments, and getting their lives ended/ruined. Some folks are trying to equate promoting assassinations with the Allies’ fight against the Axis, and it’s just not the same in characteristics or consequence. Please also bear in mind the killings are being targeted at podcasters and unknown civilians with the assumption that killing these “ground level” people will sort things out. I have yet to see someone say “forget killing the little guys, let’s make plans to kill Trump, his cabinet, and Republican lawmakers”.
Fascists: I want systemic violence against anyone that isn’t a white cis het man.
Leftists: I want violence against people who advocate for systemic violence against marginalised groups.
Absolutely undistinguishable :p
Strawman. Yeah, there are differences. It’s not like I support people like Fuentes. I’ve posted several times about him and other hateful people being reprehensible bastards. For months I posted anti-Trump. But in many ways that matter the groups are super close. Both:
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I magically know who should die so I’m right. I’m righteously saving my country, so I don’t need checks and balances or the mandate of the population.
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I don’t care if it escalates national violence, even starts a war and gets others killed - I have the right to make the choice that forces consequences on others.
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Good people are going to cheer, bad people are going to live in fear and give up their wicked ways, and I’m going to be a hero.
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Abandon peaceful, legal options. It doesn’t matter if multiple challenges to my enemy are happening at all levels of government, my way is better.
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I’m powerful enough/my side is that the bad guys will die and we’ll win. I’m so scary and capable, you don’t even know.
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I’m actually going to sit on my ass posting “fuck them” and telling other people to kill for me because it makes me feel good. Just daily indulgence in the worst brand of power fantasies.
For that last one: The doxing thread would have been hilarious if it wasn’t disgusting before it got taken down. People were all “they’re not near me” and “I hope someone else does it”. Buddy, they’re the guys who pick fights at bars and stall until the bouncer arrives then tell everyone else, “You’re lucky I was held back”. If I was wrong there would be a couple hundred folks doing something (and ruining/ending a lot of lives in the process), not just BS on Lemmy. I’m not telling people to actually act - it should be incredibly obvious I’m saying not to. I’m also saying I don’t need to worry about 99.9% of the big tough internet men doing so. The murder fetishists in this thread are clearly all hoping if the message reaches thousands, one mentally unstable murderer will actually act so they can cheer from the bleachers without consequences.
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it isn’t murder if they are an enemy combatant.
Combatant is different. If this was a civil war or something similar (and thus ruled by laws of war) and someone was a combatant you’d be absolutely correct. But the people here are talking about killing a civilian, as civilians, while not at war, and without trial which is definitely murder.
Who gets to decide it’s a civil war?
Historically it’s leaders like presidents, governors, legislative bodies, and generals. Not forum posts.
Historically
You mean the only other civil war in US history, in the 19th century? Are you actually suggesting that the lack of “forum posts” means anything at all?
Welcome to the 21st century. The world is different than last time.
I guess if you make the 134 million guns owners in America enraged and frightened for their life by providing concrete examples of killing them you can make sure it’s a civil war.
Being tollerant of an extremist (nazi or fascist) is just plain stupid.
Great! Totally agree. Can you guys make a forum or something separate from Lemmy where you post all of the assassination plans or whatever it is you do?
I’d rather the Lemmy admins not getting arrested day one of Trump’s presidency.
Oh won’t someone please think of the poor nazis?
Liberals and fascists, name a more iconic duo
Pro-violence Lemmy users and power fantasies in magical worlds where they kill a few dozen people and the world is saved.
“Doxxing Nazis is just as bad as the Nazis, you guys.” 🤡
Disingenuous. The Lemmy users supporting doxing him aren’t leaving it at that. They aren’t even suggesting just protesting his house or otherwise acting legally. From the thread where he’s doxed:
- “Hypothetically, if you’re selected for jury duty in a case like 'Someone murdered Nick Fuentes”, you can just say not guilty regardless of evidence or truth."
- “Smash a different window every day.”
- “sure would be a shame if someone dealt with him late at night, wouldn’t it? :)”
- “Nazis deserve a lot worse than just getting doxxed”
- “Can you tell me if fascists have ever been defeated peacefully?”
- “In the immortal words of my grandfather’s friend, who was the second in command of a state’s Hell’s Angel chapter, anytime something happened, ‘You want me to take care of that for you?’”
In this thread:
- “‘Bold thing to say when your house is flammable’ A screenshot I saw somewhere”
- “Yes, actually, there’s no obligation to extend the protections of the social contract to those actively attempting to destroy it.”
- “Violence against self-identified Nazis is 100% ok. We had a whole big war like 80 years ago about this.”
- “Nazis get punched and nazis get doxxed.” (As if they’re going to solve everyone’s problems by punching. If you think gun-lovers are going to let you beat them you’re mistaken. Violence = fast track to dead people.)
- “All they (fascists) understand is violence.”
- “Nazis deserve nothing but bullets to the head, if the admins want to cover their asses that’s their choice.”
Do you believe all those quotes are advocating legal things? We’re 4 days past the election and people are already talking vigilante violence.
Edit: Any pretense is gone and people are unrepentantly cheering for Fuentes to be assaulted, killed, his house lit on fire, and so on. It’s all over the responses. So yeah, “it’s just doxing, why are you guys opposed?” is disingenuous. The post I’m responding to would read “It’s just killing people to stop the killing of people” if it was representative of the actual opinions here.
Fuentes has deliberately and specifically doxxed people, karma is a bitch, end of discussion.
Am I going to burn his house down?
No, I hate driving.
But I hope he’s fucking scared that someone will so he can taste what it feels like.
Yes, karma is a bitch, and I feel nothing but contempt for Fuentes.
Doxxing is still bad though.
Helpful guide for anyone reading this thread who’s still unsure:
Doxxing people as a general rule is bad. Doxxing actual fucking nazis specifically is a public service (cool and good).
Maybe you just want him to stew. But the whole point of my post is that people providing the specific examples I give don’t just want him doxed or even just protested - they’re actually calling for violence or murder. I don’t like Fuentes, and I’m not defending him as a person AT ALL. It took 3 minutes of looking up who he was to be disgusted by him. That doesn’t justify the blatantly illegal violence people are pushing for. Most of the big talkers will never do a damn thing either, which is actually a good thing because the most likely outcomes are they die or ruin their lives. I just hope their posts about teaching Nazis via violence don’t get someone more impressionable to ruin their life.
Nazis deserve nothing but bullets to the head, if the admins want to cover their asses that’s their choice.
Nazis deserve nothing but bullets to the head
I thought you just wanted him afraid? Sounds like you too actually want him literally killed without charge or trial - good thing you don’t consider it worth the drive since the most likely outcomes are you die or ruin your life. And spur revenge violence either way when people turn him into a martyr. Fuentes is an awful human being for advocating terrible things, don’t be like him but just on an opposite side. Thanks for a quote to add to my main post that really illustrates people actually wanting violence and not just “innocent” doxing btw.
I thought you just wanted him afraid? Sounds like you too actually want him literally killed without charge or trial
Those are not mutually exclusive. One is much more likely to happen than the other.
And if someone does end up committing a murder because of some twitter post and going to prison for it, hey, that’s one less ticking time bomb walking the streets. Ol’ nick’s life is far less valuable than those of random innocents. And one more martyr is not going to change anything. They are perfectly capable of substituting imaginary slights for real ones.
Do you think that “they could be killing us” will get the same response as “they ARE killing us”? Trump and supporting militias are going to have a field day if people like you get their way. If you think it’s bad now, wait until the 134 million American gun owners on both sides are enraged by proven examples that make them fearful of being murdered by their fellow countrymen.
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If you think the Holocaust would have ended without a whole lot of murder than you’re insane.
Ok buddy, you kill your way to a safe nation. What’s actually going to happen is you’ll die or ruin your life, and Trump will get all the proof of radical left terrorism he needs to do things like deploy the military in civilian areas.
No problem. You liberals just promise to get out of the way while leftists have to do all the hard work required to save a country. As usual.
I know you won’t be able to control yourselves though and will make it exponentially more difficult.
I AM a leftist. I’m a socialist (not communist) who believes in systems akin to Scandinavia’s. I support Bernie Sanders and policies like universal healthcare, living wages, and a strong social network of supports. What I’m not is a short-sighted violence advocate convinced that they’re in a group of untouchable heroes that will save the world via illegal murder and get away with it.
I’m sorry, but when you smugly tell half the country that you’re going to do as you please to their bodies, you get what you get.
if you’re selected for jury duty in a case like 'Someone murdered Nick Fuentes", you can just say not guilty regardless of evidence or truth."
True. Jury Nullification is 100% legal and very cool, especially if used to protect anti-fascist action.
Smash a different window every day.
Counterpoint: Smash every window on different days.
Q: sure would be a shame if someone dealt with him late at night, wouldn’t it?
A: “No.”
Nazis deserve a lot worse than just getting doxxed
Imagine actually disagreeing with this. From the sound of it, just identifying who a Nazi is a step too far for you. I guess we should just ignore them and never sound the alarms about it and just let them do what they want?
Q: Can you tell me if fascists have ever been defeated peacefully?
A: “Never once”
In the immortal words of my grandfather’s friend, who was the second in command of a state’s Hell’s Angel chapter, anytime something happened:
“I shidded and farded out my doo doo ass”
Bold thing to say when your house is flammable
If you want to have safety and security in life, don’t position yourself as a direct threat to the fundamental liberties and freedoms enjoyed by more than half the nation.
Yes, actually, there’s no obligation to extend the protections of the social contract to those actively attempting to destroy it.
Paradox of tolerance. You cannot tolerate intolerance. Intolerance must be destroyed.
Nazis get punched and nazis get doxxed.
Hell yeah.
As if they’re going to solve everyone’s problems by punching. If you think gun-lovers are going to let you beat them you’re mistaken. Violence = fast track to dead people
Good point. I’ll adjust my view on this: “Nazis get
punchedshot and Nazis get doxxed”. I’d rather see dead Nazis than dead people.All they (fascists) understand is violence.
This is true, and they’re betting big on us not being willing to use it like they will. Prove them wrong.
Nazis deserve nothing but bullets to the head
There are like 500 movies where this is the literal moral of the story. Go watch Inglorious Basterds or League of Ungentlemanly Warfare and consider how unpopular you really think this rhetoric is. People respond to it like they do cartoon violence: no humans are harmed.
Hell, Wolfenstein 3D, the first ever FPS, avoided controversy by making the game about killing Nazis. It was basically kid-friendly.
Great write up, 10/10 no notes.
Thanks for clarifying that you also are talking about way more than just doxing. Which is the whole point of my post - it’s disingenuous to argue, as he is, that it’s “just doxing guys, why are you so upset?”. You just gave supporting evidence.
I get your point but this is kind of a pro-punching-Nazis group of people and I don’t think you are likely to change many people’s minds lol
We can see how well just trying to vote them away is working. Fascists use violence to silence adversaries. All they understand is violence. You will never “moral high ground” a fascist into understanding the error of their ways.
So instead of opposing them legally, you want to jump straight to violence? I guarantee that will make a martyr out of Fuentes, give Trumpers evidence about how “the enemy within” is dangerous and destructive, and lead to people you support and care about being killed in return.
Telling people to use violence first is not a plan for a safe nation, and it’s very illegal as well. If you ever stop talking big on a forum and actually commit the violence you push for others to do be prepared to spend the rest of your life in prison, and rightfully so. Even worse, someone mentally unstable might read all these posts and go do it themselves and ruin their life. In no way is that the ethical choice, even if you are personally convinced it’s worth it.
Violence should be a last choice, it should be kept within bounds that prevent it from being a crime/war crime, and should never be done by whoever is angry enough to kill people identified as dangerous by an internet forum.
No, we don’t see how well voting works. Trump got less votes this run than he did in the last election where he fucking lost.
Check the updated vote counts. Some states aren’t done yet and he’s already around a million or so more votes higher than 2020.
Sure - he might be actively pushing for a series of genocides, and he might be a significant recruitment tool to advance those genocides, but pushing back against the death of millions of people with anything more than colourful language would be immoral.
Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.
Yeah, I’ve proven to be a real fan of Fuentes in other parts of this thread… Take off with the insults and assumptions. You think someone like Bernie Sanders is going to tell his followers to kill Fuentes? I guess he’s a fascist too huh? Here’s what I actually oppose - blatantly illegal mob justice. Fuentes is a bastard, but that doesn’t justify some angry internet dude committing an act of premeditated murder. Are you going to kill everyone with an ideology you consider dangerous? While convinced it’s to prevent suffering no less. What about when, if Fuentes dies because of things he says, the right makes him a martyr and example of how dangerous “the enemy within” is making America? What if the fellow countrymen who you so hate start killing you and people you support/care about in return? Is that your plan for a safe nation?
It’s taken like 4 days post-election for people to escalate to calling for violence against people they’ve identified as Nazis. All in the name of ethics no less. I can empathize with the anger and feeling of helplessness. It’s still ridiculous and heart-breaking that less than a week after a loss there’s hundreds of upvotes for people pushing extrajudicial cold-blooded murder and violence in the name of righteousness. Unrepentantly so I might add.
P.S. Don’t tell me the folks hinting at this crap aren’t talking about murder. Even if, and that’s a big if, they only meant beatings or the like (still illegal) that would degenerate into lethal violence basically immediately. You personally have already said you don’t want to use words alone.
No… Stop… Please? Niiiick? I said pleeeease…
I use morality rather than legality to tell right from wrong. This is why I supported gay marriage a few years ago. My moral first principle is the minimisation of suffering and death. If someone is making headway toward killing tens of millions of people, I believe it’s immoral not to stop them, and while the suffering inflicted should be minimised, there’s not a lot that wouldn’t be justifiable if necessary to stop those tens of millions of deaths and all the suffering.
To stand by and watch something like that play out because forceful intervention is uncivil is to be complicit with those atrocities.
It’s insane to think killing Fuentes is going to prevent tens of millions of deaths. For starters, even a lot of Republicans want little or nothing to do with him. 2nd, if he is so dangerous, do you think his followers (who you argue are capable of killing many millions) are just going to throw up their hands at his death and go “whelp, that finishes it for us”? They’ll become more hateful, and much more likely to become violent in return.
What you are pushing for is also very illegal. If you ever stop talking big and start doing, the most likely outcomes are you die or ruin your life. I’d say put up or shut up, but please don’t - vigilantism is wrong and I don’t want to see deaths or you and others suffering the outcomes even if I disagree with you. Worse, posts like yours might convince someone impressionable or less mentally stable to attack Fuentes and ruin their life instead because folks like you got angry. Plus the whole cascade of violence or even revenge killings situation.
You’ve said a lot while adding nothing.
Again, the priority is minimising suffering and death - if Fuentes’ death amounts to a net increase in death and suffering, I don’t support it. If there is a solution to that leads to less net suffering and death, I don’t support his death. If it’s effective at stopping the deaths of tens of millions of people, I’d support it. My preferred solution would be to escalate charges, censure and imprisonment for his work to advance those genocides.
What I will say is that:
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Silencing the mouthpieces of genocide and the recruiters for genocide helps minimises the chances of the genocides,
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Making contributing to genocide a dangerous affair helps minimise the chances of genocides.
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Asking nicely doesn’t do a damn thing to minimise the chances of the genocides.
Political violence is an inevitability - I’d rather it be minimised - sometimes a little violence stops a lot - this is why cops carry guns.
Finally, what you are pushing for is very illegal.
I’ve already said I’m guided by morality not legality, and I’m not pushing for anything specific beyond stopping about the most heinous act possible. I appreciate your concern, but the rest is noise.
Nothing? I addressed and rebutted your argument that your “there’s not a lot that wouldn’t be justifiable if necessary” (aka killing Fuentes) would prevent “tens of millions of deaths”. You seem to think “killing mouthpieces” is going to be some magical event that makes hateful people reconsider (as opposed to spurring them to violence of their own). Also, I’d like to add it’s ridiculous hyperbole - 3.8 million people are estimated to have died in the 20 years of the Vietnam war. Just over 900k died to violence in all the post 9-11 wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. Finally, even if you don’t care about going to prison or dying, hopefully others reading will.
You go ahead and be “guided by morality not legality” while you do try to convince others extrajudicial violence is alright. All because you believe killing people outside the law, and getting people killed in return, is productive if you’re sure it’s right. You use the example of cops carrying guns, but they’re not under license to kill everyone they disagree with nor is it considered moral (since you don’t care about legality). Can you imagine if your example cops were guided by your principles, ignored law, and killed everyone they suspected might be a dangerous criminal on the chance it would reduce suffering? I’m thankful you’re almost certainly all talk, and let’s hope no one else listens to your posts about “silencing mouthpieces” and “making it dangerous”. That’s a recipe for mass violence, lawlessness, and associated suffering.
Violence should be a last resort, used only within bounds that keep if from being a crime/war crime, and definitely not exercised by everyone at will if they’re pretty sure it’s productive.
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Actual fascists mirroring Hitler’s rise to power prior to WW2, using the same rhetoric of violence toward out-groups, a tyrant failing to be prosecuted under the law even though he was convicted of 34 felonies, going through the entire system with nothing to show for it, and you dumb fucking “centrists” still feel like things can be fixed through the utterly broken fucking system we’ve created.
Get your heads out of your fucking asses.
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No. You’re wrong. You’re absolutely wrong in this instance and you need to stop. Do not protect nazis. Ever. Full stop.
If you’re not going to help then at least for the love of fucking god get out of the way.
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Nazis aren’t people
Don’t dehumanize any group of people and imply violence against them is ok.
I think I’m in the wrong place
Are you really arguing we should all be nicer to literal Nazis? That’s the group we are talking about.
If you’re in the wrong place, I’m here with you. There are ways to deal with people that aren’t dehumanization and vigilante mob justice. We’re 4 days past the election. I think we need to see if society can pull through and avert disaster with less escalation and violence.
E.g. there are a lot of legal challenges being prepared for the militarized internment camps that Trump campaigned on. Also, the things he promised are simply outside the logistical scope of agencies to provide. “For one, it’s entirely impractical from an operational standpoint. The law enforcement capacity needed to both secure the border and carry out mass raids in the interior of the US simply does not exist.”
Maybe things will get bad enough in the US to justify a civil war or something similar. It’s happened before (although even then it wasn’t just whoever felt violent killing each other - it was war with rules). Or maybe things like legal challenges, impossible scope, and half the nation’s disapproval will keep it from getting to that point. I’d like to keep extrajudicial violence off the table until we know.
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You are correct. That’s what Nazis do. Don’t sink to their level.
Amen. Defy the urge to race to the bottom, even if it’s borne out of genuine, understandable grief and frustration.
My guy let me spell it out for you, you fucking dumbass.
LITERAL NAZIS CAN ROT IN HELL. That’s it. You afford them nothing.
His address is public domain. I’m sure he has an unlisted number, so that would be a violation of privacy.
Fuck Illinois Nazis
Fuck Nazis
I hate illinois nazis.
I might get hate for this… But do we want stoop their level? Also, doxxing is also illegal in most countries.
It aint stooping to their level its embracing tradition, which is to say the proud tradition of shooting fascists, Pinkertons, lawmen, and annoying as fuck cultists.
You will get hate for it, but not because you’re wrong. Also, while doxing is technically legal in the US if it’s just posting a person’s details like address, it becomes illegal “if it’s part of an effort to truly threaten or harm someone, if it intentionally inflicts emotional distress, or if it invades someone’s privacy by revealing a highly offensive personal fact about that person without providing the public information about a matter of public concern.” Courts have decided malicious doxing is not protected by the First Amendment.
I’m pretty sure the original doxing thread was removed, and I’m willing to bet there’s more to it than the admin who said “fuck reports, it’s staying up” having a change of heart regarding morality.
I am not from the states, but there is limits on freedom of expression in my country.
His address, my choice
Bold thing to say when your house is flammable.
A screenshot I saw somewhere.
The screenshot I saw explained that the person that posted it said “Your house, my choice” and it just goes so fucking hard.
Hes probably like “your body my choice” so its only a somewhat fair trade.
He did tweet that.
- I am not in twitter and will not go to verify it. This is multiple third-party sources
Lol, it was A wild guess and I was right.
We’re about to see a fascist america, and this is what you’re worried about?
Do you also feel bad for the Nazis in pre-war germany who got harmed? Or even killed? Chances are you don’t
Our world is about to become very different to what we’re used to. Get ready for it. Playing nice won’t win you the war
It should be everywhere.
And don’t come to me with the bullshit ‘tolerance paradox’. Tolerance is not a human right. It’s a clause of a societal contract and whoever start by breaking the contract is no longer covered by it.
Nazis get punched and nazis get doxxed.
Wait am I just misunderstanding what the Tolerance Paradox is?
My read of the Tolerance Paradox is that it’s Ok to punch Nazis because if you render yourself unwilling to participate in violence, there are others who will happily do it for (to) you.
The tolerance paradox is the idea that the one thing tolerant people cannot tolerate is intolerance. Doing so allows intolerance to take root and potentially win because it’s unopposed. Which I agree with. Where I split from some people in this and other threads is I don’t believe that not tolerating intolerance = killing those you consider intolerant. I know you only said punching, but if people start beating people en masse (and a lot of people are considered Nazis nowadays) it’s going to escalate very quickly. Plus some are already calling for more than punching.
I think Ghandi and his followers understood this.
And Ghandi also has quotes saying you have an obligation to try peace at first but sometimes there is no alternative to violence, especially in self-defense.
https://www.azquotes.com/author/5308-Mahatma_Gandhi/tag/violence
His house, the people’s choice. The information being available just allows people to make an informed decision of whether or not to use it, and in what way.
I’ve been labelling a bunch of people in this thread, mostly with “likes doxxing”, but you my friend get “LOVES doxxing”. Congrats 🎉
There are two stages when dealing with Nazis.
In the first stage: mock the ever loving shit out of Nazis. Nazis thrive on being making people afraid of them. Hard for people to he afraid of you when everyone is mocking you.
Glitter bomb, flaming bags of poop, toilet paper, egg the Fuentes house. Draw penises on the walls. The more juvenile the prank, the better. Hard to be afraid of someone when they have massive penis spray painted on the garage door.
Second stage kicks in when Nazis start getting violent. Kick those fuckers right in the crotch. Stop them from being able to breed.
There’s a third.
Nazis are bred in religion, where they’re taught authoritarianism is morality. How do you kick them in the religion?
To people advocating violence in this thread - let’s just ignore the immorality of convincing civilians to assault and kill other civilians. It’s clear that premeditated murder is something these folks are unrepentant about if they’re sure it’s justified. So instead:
- If people start dying Trump will have the outrage-inducing incidents he DREAMS of. If someone kills Fuentes/others the cops will seize and search all their electronic devices and social media accounts. They’ll uncover all this violent vigilante rhetoric that radicalized the murderer and it will make the news. Trump will get all the proof he could want that “the enemy within” is a lethal threat, and he’ll make national headlines out of these social media posts about “Trumpers are Nazis and Nazis aren’t people and only deserve bullets in their heads”. Fuentes and any others killed will be martyrs. Legal opposition that state governments, courts, civil liberty organizations, etc. are mustering will be swept away in the wake of radical left domestic terrorism and the fear it brings. Similar to how post-9/11 fear turned into 20 years of war.
- Some people here are apparently living in a magical world where they punch millions and the Nazis fall to the ground wailing “Mein gott, I am undone! What a fool I’ve been. I’ll be a better person!” and everyone around them cheers and promises to depose Trump and vote Democrat. Even worse are the ones who want to start shooting people, as if killing extremist, insane media figures like Fuentes will make their hateful audience concede and become good citizens. This morning I literally had someone reference Inglorious Basterds as proof the nation would rise up and support them. Life isn’t a Tarantino film and you aren’t Brad Pitt.
- What is actually going to happen if you punch these people is they will pull guns on you in self-defence and kill you, then get acquitted in conservative courts because you assaulted them. Remember crybaby Kyle Rittenhouse? If you shoot them, they will start killing people back. The plan to beat up and shoot fascists en masse is a wet dream for domestic terror organizations/militias like the Proud Boys. Violence won’t prevent purges, it will start them.
- Basically all of these keyboard warriors aren’t going to actually do any of the really illegal punching and killing they are so proud to demand. They’re quick to say all Nazis must die right now to prevent “tens of millions of deaths”, but THANKFULLY it doesn’t seem like they’re actually killing the Nazis near them (and they really, really shouldn’t). So far it’s all “I don’t live near him” and “it sure would be a shame if someone else did it <wink>”. For essentially everyone posting this crap, again thankfully, it’s just internet power fantasies and hoping someone impressionable commits the crime and takes the consequences.
I’m not defending fascist trash like Fuentes, but I am opposing these calls for angry internet “warriors” to start killing. Instead of telling everyone to murder their fellow citizens, how about protesting and visibly showing support for the women and minorities being targeted? How about making sure every American knows about measures like Gavin Newsom “Trump-proofing” California, or all the people and states already setting up legal challenges to things like mass deportations. What about making sure people know the Pentagon is furiously planning to resist and delay controversial orders? I assure you the Pentagon, state authorities and civil liberties organizations have far more effective and legal plans than angry Lemmy users convinced they’re going to punch and kill their way to a safe nation.
In a nutshell: If they hit one side of your face, turn the other cheek. Repeat it until both your face fucking hurts and they think it’s violent of you instead not kneeling down, not spreading your arms wide open, not putting your tongue between your teeth, not lifting your chin, so they could just kick your chin while holding you down, until you eventually bite off your tongue. Maybe after that, they will have remorse and not continue kicking you to death on the ground.
They already have “violent vigilante rhetoric”. They send bomb threats to anyone remotely pro-LGBTQ+, because some Jewish collaborant told them they’re grooming kids by their mere existence. The moral high ground won’t save any of us.
You know one of the reasons why they’re calling us “cucks”? Because we will take the moral high ground every time they hit a new low, including on positions we have never really hold. Remember all the “why are you so intolerant of intolerance?” posts? That caused many of us to just go full out tolerant of nazis, to not appear “anti free speech”, which for them means “free from criticism and with a guaranteed audience”, not “free expression until you don’t hurt others”. Hell, at the end days of my “nihilistic edgelord” phase, if I wanted to joke about Stalin alongside of Hitler, I got called out on the former, because the latter “only killed 600 000 (!) people”. (A number from a then common and dumb holocaust denialist theory of “they accidentally put one extra zero there”)
In a nutshell
In a nutshell you don’t understand effective resistance, just violence. Your whole 1st paragraph is little more than torture porn - likely because you can’t argue with my specific points intellectually so you want to appeal to extremes of emotion.
Think. What do you suppose will accomplish more to slow and stop Trump? The Pentagon, state governments, courts, and civil rights organizations with their legal challenges and administrative knowledge? Or a couple hundred Lemmy warriors “storming” Chicago hunting podcasters and Illinois fascists who’ll they’ll magically identify and slaughter because you’re all supheroes apparently? And that’s assuming all of you aren’t just talking just talking tough because it makes you feel good, which has odds of very slim to none. Even -if- you could and actually would, do not sabotage real efforts towards foiling Trump by killing or assaulting people (not to mention your lives). If a civil war breaks out and it’s army vs. army that’s different, but the US isn’t near there yet and in the meantime you’re trying to be the WW2 Allies without the army or mandate.
They already have “violent vigilante rhetoric”.
“They’re evil so I should be allowed to do it too.” Let’s forget morality issues - in the context of murdering people like podcasters it doesn’t even make sense to race to the bottom. It will accomplish almost nothing and cause a host of problems. Let’s say miracles are real - you aren’t full of crap, you don’t get caught or killed, and you actually go murder Fuentes in cold blood or someone else like him. What do you honestly think the right’s response is going to be? “Oh crap, we better stop hating”? Creating martyrs and millions of angry, fearful people with guns is not the path to a safe nation.
You know one of the reasons why they’re calling us “cucks”?
Oh no, the would-be rapists and fascists on the extreme right don’t like me! …Are you really trying to tell me you’re upset about their insults? They can say whatever they want about me. Hell, you can too. I’m going to sleep just fine tonight without the approval of short-sided murder fetishists, regardless of whether they are your guys or Trump’s.
I wish I had your eloquence
That’s a wonderful compliment and I genuinely smiled. Everyone has their skills, and I’m 100% positive you exceed me in other ways. We all contribute.
I dont think violence is generally demanded here though a certain amount of roleplaying is necessary to make it feel genuine. It is more that people want him to understand how it feels to have violence towards you a very real possibility because someone is painting a target on your back. Fuentes him self wont resort to violence mainly because he is just a cowardly manipulator and will never be a part of the mob (unless for occasional show). I think it is useful for such mob behaviour enablers to understand how it feels to be on the other end of the stick.
Your points were a little wordy, but I think I can summarize this pretty succinctly:
- Republicans are fascists, and they’re in charge. Fall in line or you deserve what they do to you.
- I don’t like incivility and violence, but I don’t have any viable alternatives to offer. Regardless, fall in line or you’re actually the problem.
- Republicans are fascists, and they’re in charge. Fall in line or you deserve what they do to you. (x2)
- *screaming baby noises*
he could not, in fact, summarize it
- I gave alternatives at the bottom about how to resist in a way that won’t hand the right the justification/bogeyman they dream about, and get people killed (including a lot of the people talking big if they follow through on their words).
- I gave alternatives at the bottom (x2)
- I gave alternatives at the bottom (x3), including concrete examples of institutions/people already prepping resistance.
- You say “waah”. I say luckily, almost all of you (probably 100%) won’t do the killing you’re so happy to push others to do. Tell me tough guy, when exactly are you personally planning on putting up instead of shutting up? I don’t think you have and (again thankfully) I don’t believe you will - I’m damn near positive you’ll just ragepost and grumble about how you totally would have and how heroic that makes you. And to be very clear I definitely don’t think you should even if you’re mentally unbalanced enough to do so - if you start punching/killing people you’ll just die or ruin your life + the whole cascade of violence thing.
If the post is too wordy (wordcounter.net places it at 2m10s for the average reader) for you to pay attention, consider sticking to downvoting, skipping it, and not commenting such easily rebutted points.
Oh no a literal Russian asset might see some semblance of repercussions.
That’s so horrible
Die mad about it 🤷♂️
Wait, you’re acting like it’s a bad thing
