Honestly call or email the Democratic party offices and voice that you one hundred percent agree with Sanders.
I’m not upset Bernie was criticized - no one should be above a good-faith critique and ideas should be judged on merit as opposed to who says them. The reason I disagree with Pelosi is that I think Sanders made some damn good points, and if the Dems don’t listen they are going to fail again.
Pelosi is a piece of shit whose career should have ended in jail for insider trading decades ago.
As a Democrat, even I’m sick of Pelosi’s shit.
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New information shows his internal polling at the time showed he’d lose to Trump’s 407 electoral votes… He still refused to step down for over a month. You are incorrect that he would have won by all metrics that can be known.
… if there are any more elections
Oh there’ll be elections. Just like Russia has elections, and Cuba.
The reason I disagree with Pelosi is that I think Sanders made some damn good points, and if the Dems don’t listen they are going to fail again.
They would rather fail than listen.
They would rather fail than
listensacrifice corporate donations
I think the biggest issue was actually with messaging. Democrats were still pretty much relying on MSM which almost no young people watch.
I think that beyond what Sanders says what left needs are young people, true populists (as opposed to pseudopopulists ones like MAGA has) with progressive messages.
No, I would say an over reliance on mainstream media certainly hurts them, but their messaging still sucks. Just to go with examples Bernie provided here, how do you think the Democrats message that the economy is doing just great resonates with the 60% of Americans living paycheck to paycheck, the 25% of elderly people who need to eke out a living on $15,000 a year or less, or the 20 million Americans working for less than $15/hour? It’s a slap in the face to all of them. Messaging is not just getting the message out, but sending the right messages, and the Democrats whiffed hard on that front. They need to do some serious self-reflection and make some drastic changes to both the structure of the party and its platform if they want to do anything more than win the odd election for a single term when the GOP oversteps itself. Pelosi and the old ghouls that support her should all be kicked to the curb.
Like seriously, who do they think they’re fooling? This rhetoric of “the economy is great” doesn’t work on people who are struggling more and more every year through no fault of their own. Nobody but the super rich give a shit about quarterly profits and your definition of recession. The working class has been in “recession” for decades.
This rhetoric of “the economy is great” doesn’t work on people who are struggling more and more every year through no fault of their own.
I’m starting to reject the idea that people should get less help even if it is some fault of their own.
We shouldn’t have a system where if you don’t make every decision perfectly you just deserve what you get and should just suck it up. There should be more ways for people to turn it around, more ways for people to get a mulligan for past (or even recent) bad decisions that helps them get back on their feet or better yet put their feet on a better path.
Making a bad decision (or two, or three) on education or finances or even (to a point) breaking the law at the youngest and least experienced points in your life should not be something that puts you on an uphill climb for decades afterward.
I’m getting down voted to fuck elsewhere for pointing this out.
Sorry to hear it. Sometimes the dogpile is real.
Copium and sour grapes help wash it down. I was highly let down but not the least bit surprised by the outcome. I am trying to get people accept that the Dems need reform if we’re going to continue with a two party system.
Unfortunately, the Pelosis and Schumers are going to continue to shove milquetoast and false hope down our throat while continuing to move to the right to try and grab the republican demographic.
Meanwhile, the rest of us just want food, education, housing, and a way to retire before we’re 90.
Based on his remarks, I won’t be shocked if he’s working on organizing a whole new political party that’s going to eventually supplant the Democratic Party altogether.
And if that’s what he’s doing, and he pulls it off, it’ll be a good thing, and I’ll probably register a political affiliation other than “no party/unaffiliated” for the first time in about 14 years.
I won’t be shocked if he’s working on organizing a whole new political party that’s going to eventually supplant the Democratic Party altogether.
I don’t know how such a thing could ever happen, but I never thought where we are today could happen, so what do I know?
Yep, same.
This was my thought as well.
These Conservative Democrats are so uninspiring that we’d allow Nazi level fascists to take over.
If this is the political reality, then it’s the political reality that must be adapted to.
Centrists would rather lose.
Pelosi’s attitude is a big reason why
She believes voters work for her and need to do what she wants or she scolds them, afterwards they’ll listen.
Bernie believes the best way to get elected is to show voters you’ll help them.
One method is very effective, it’s just foreign governments, billionaires, and corporations pay a lot of money to make sure candidates like that never make it out of a primary.
If an elected official put the average voter first, where does that leave the wealthy?
Not first? Completely unacceptable, Thurston get my mink we’re leaving.
Bernie is one of the few remaining politicians in our country who are in politics as a service vs a career. I wouldn’t be surprised if after every time he gets elected he consoles himself, “this’ll be the last time you need to run, this is the cycle where we’ll fix American politics and you can go back to your dream of opening an ice cream shop.”
One method is very effective, it’s just foreign governments, billionaires, and corporations pay a lot of money to make sure candidates like that never make it out of a primary.
Slight disagreement. They pay a lot of money so candidates like that don’t make it into a primary.
The Pelosi interview is honestly batshit insane. She doesn’t see the election as a rejection of the party, thinks the Democrats are doing well, Kamala Harris did everything right, Sanders is wrong, and then she made some backhanded comments about how Biden should have dropped out earlier. I know some of that is spin she that she has to say, but it’s still deeply out of touch.
Kamala Harris did everything right
She presented her message of ‘vote for me to keep things the same’ flawlessly. Unfortunately, people who live paycheck to paycheck don’t want things to stay the same.
They’re looking forward to wishing they were able to live paycheck to paycheck…
Lord knows you’re looking forward to watching people suffer just so you can lecture harder.
Scolding voters into voting for someone who represents no deviation from an untenable status quo has failed, very publicly, twice. It doesn’t matter how bad the opponent is. This strategy is shit. Stop using it. Learn, damn you all. Learn.
I voted for Harris.
Me too and I wasn’t saying that I’m looking forward to it…I’m saying the economics are going to be horrible and we’re going to long to these times back.
Yeah, if Trump pulls the stuff he said he’d pull (Tariffs and mass deportations), then the supply of goods inside the country will fall drastically, resulting in stronger inflation. Which will then result in consumption of anything nonessential to collapse. This will lead to increasing unemployment.
While that is why will likely happen, most voters aren’t knowledgeable enough to recognize it. They don’t know what tariffs are or how it’ll effect us, for example. They trust the media to tell them the truth, which is horribly misguided.
Honestly, fuck Pelosi. Completely out of touch. I wish we could ride ourselves of these dinosaurs.
Now this is
podracingpolitics!
So long as she can keep trading on insider information I seriously doubt that she cares.
“do you really think that the Democratic party is going to the mat… and fighting for you?”
Forget about me, or the working class, the Democratic party doesn’t actually fight for anything.
2000 election stolen in Florida? Ho hum, oh well… we’ll get 'em next time! (2004 election stolen in Ohio…)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jan/29/uselections2000.usa
https://www.wired.com/2008/03/the-mysterious/
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/republican-it-guru-dies-in-plane-crash/
You rightly nominated a Supreme Court Justice but the Senate refuses to give them a hearing? Oh well! Guess we’ll just have to win the 2016 election…
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merrick_Garland_Supreme_Court_nomination
The Republicans are doing zero for the working class other than lying to them and giving their money yo billionaires.
Dems supported unions where Trump impugned them
Dems forgave student loans, Republicans went to court to stop it
Dems pushed to end noncompetes for the average worker, Republicans went to court to stop it
Dems passed the CHIPS act to bring good paying jobs to multiple communities
Dems passed an infrastructure bill while Trump had 100 infrastructure weeks that accomplished nothing
Trump said he’d fire workers rather than pay them overtime
Harris promised to investigate price gouging, Trump is supported by the oligarchy
Etc, etc
Which indicates that policy is secondary to messaging. On every substantive policy metric, Democrats are better than Republicans. People even say they prefer Democratic policies over Republicans’ when polled, by wide margins. So it must be the messenger and the way the message is being conveyed that is losing elections. That’s not to say that policies don’t matter, they absolutely do, but if you’ve got great policies and shit messaging, then you’re not going to win voters over, no matter how much better you are.
The democrats don’t try to appeal to those without higher education. Republicans are great at presenting information in easy to digest bites.
Nonsense. They try nonstop to appeal to Republicans.
I forgot which comedian did this bit during their standup but their point was that progressives/liberals/leftists suck at messaging or sloganeering. Their goals are noble but there are no catchy slogans to go with it.
Just think about it. “They’re killing the babies!” is way more catchy and effective than “Access to abortion should be available to everyone. Even if you want to have a child, some complications or health issues may require you to abort the pregnancy as early as you can.” Yeah that’s not reaching everyone, is it? And you can’t scream it like “They’re killing the babies!”
And that’s just an example of policy that was chosen by few states’, which they also voted for GOP, giving them power to ban abortion on federal level. (In case you are wondering which states: Arizona, Missouri, Montana, Nevada)
If you can’t communicate how you can give the people what they want, how do you even counter “Democrats hate America!” or stuff like that?
My body, my choice has been the message since forever.
And that works great as a protest slogan where people are already aware of how it works. But not a great slogan when you want to reach to people who are ignorant about what it entails.
All of those things you posted sound good, but if you look at the details and execution, it’s either a pathetically laughable attempt or something they should have done 3 years ago.
Prosecute companies for wage theft.
Start splitting up monopolies at the beginning of your presidency or vice presidency, not at the end.
Don’t destroy the train union and then pretend that you’re pro-union because you went to one picket line. And as I recall, it was Joe who went.
When you push for non-competes or you push for student loan forgiveness, and the Republicans find legal ways to stop your efforts, find other legal ways to continue your efforts. If you just shrug your shoulders and say we tried, but we couldn’t make your lives better, of course nobody is going to think that you meant a word you said.
The Democrat said 4 years to deliver, or at least to show that they tried very hard to deliver, and they chose to do neither of those. Which is sad.
And if Harris is telling us what she wants to do in the future, we’re immediately going to ask why she and Joe didn’t already do it in the past. When we don’t get an answer, we just shrug our shoulders. It’s more of the same from Washington politicians. Democrats in Washington certainly represent somebody, but that somebody isn’t you and me.
Joe and the train crash is real union support. Please.
Uh… We all know Trump is bad you’re not proving anything here. However, policies aside, Harris’s campaign sucked ass. If you don’t understand or refuse to accept that then there’s no conversation to be had here.
Edit: I was responding to an argument that doesn’t exist nvm.
Are you trying to make a point? Because you’re not saying anything
I’m not defending Harris’ overall campaign, but I am taking some issue with Bernie claiming that the Democrats have abandoned working class voters.
I like Bernie, and he makes some good points about the lack of any bill put forth to raise the minimum wage. But I think his overall characterization is quite a bit off base, especially when compared to what the Republicans are offering working-class voters. Which is basically nothing
I’ll listen to any counterpoint with an open mind but you have to make one
I almost feel like someone maybe confused comment threads because it’s not directly related to your main comment.
Oh yeah my bad there. I’ve seen enough “there was no problem with Harris’s campaign” takes that I kinda default to that.
To respond to the actual point you made, let’s first forget about any comparisons to Republicans because that’s just not the point here. After that I wanna establish that Biden’s administration is, by all means, an exception. He ran on an explicitly left-wing platform that Bernie had a role in creating, and despite still being a corporate democrat did things that actually helped the working class. Compared to his campaign Harris ran on “nothing will fundamentally change” and straight up said she didn’t have anything in mind that she’d do differently from Biden regarding the economy. That rejection of change, which shaped her campaign as a whole (the economy is just the most egregious example), is abandoning a working class who desperately needs change. Add in how Harris explicitly tried to court Republicans and we have reason to believe the DNC intended to shift to the right rather than the left, again abandoning the working class.
All fair points. My intended point was that take some exception to Bernie’s blanket statement that the Dems abandoned the working class voters. Though I agree they haven’t focused enough there, nor message it correctly.
Biden definititely ran and led on a more progressively left platform after Bernie and AOC collaborated with them in 2020. I think it’s clear Harris was going to continue that, but I don’t think it was properly messaged
especially when compared to what the Republicans are offering working-class voters. Which is basically nothing
Nothing? They’ll be taking away what working class has now. That’s worse than offering nothing.
Unfortunately his whole political career has been the democrats telling him he’s wrong as they continually shoot themselves in their collective dick.
I, for one, will be writing in his name, voting third party or not at all until they give me a genuinely progressive candidate. Until then, fuck them, and fuck this country.
Now, imagine this sentiment among thousands of people, across multiple states. That’s how you lose an election.
Lmao buddy. Ignoring the people to the left is how you literally just lost an election
That is exactly what they just said.
Sorry, but losing strategies deserve to lose. Im tired of voting for someone because they’re slightly less bought and paid for.
These people are all whooshing hard on what you said. They can’t even imagine non-scold comments anymore.
If two partys are not representing my interests at all, the winning strategy is to make my vote about punishing the one that didnt represent my interests when it was in power. This way it will have to adapt to recognize my interests when it needs my vote to get back to power.
By just always voting whatever party claims to be the less evil for me, all i do is create a race to the bottom of evil, as i make sure that my vote does not need to be fought for.
Big bussiness is scared that if given the chance bernie would win and they cant risk that.
Let’s not wrap it in some mysterious “big businesses” it is really oligarchs vs us, they take more and more of wealth making all of us poorer and then use media (which they control) to say it is because of minorities our lives are so shitty.
I highly recommend On Freedom book by Timothy Snyder which talks how we are being manipulated to go against our best interest.
I think everyone should read it and be aware as things won’t improve unless we start fighting back.
Honestly call or email the Democratic party
Do it because it will be cathartic, but don’t do it expecting them to listen. Progressives need a new tack if we’re actually going to save humanity from ourselves. (Spoiler, we probably won’t)
. (Spoiler, we probably won’t)
Well I don’t respect Pelosi, so I feel like we’ve got balance here
It is a rare moment when you can pinpoint issues that Bernie Sanders was on the wrong side of, even with the benefit of hindsight. Because of that, I have more faith in Bernie Sanders’ wisdom than any other politician at the moment.
Shes nodding to the corporste over lords. She’s saying:
don’t worry, we will never betray your riches kisses feet we will fight for your continued market dominance and wealth inequality
She is a corporate overlord. The old witch couldn’t care less about normal, poor people.
She deserves to be treated like a queen of france.
I’m not American, and I can’t vote in US elections. Bernie Sanders is one of few US political figures that I respect the opinions of.
I don’t know what Pelosi is smoking, but it has to be some good shit.
She’s smoking corporate cock, just like the rest of Congress.
People are stupid. They are mad at democrats so they allowed a fascist to take power so they will never have another free election again and things will only change for the worse with no chance of them getting better.
Non voters in this election were as dumb as Trump voters.
Don’t get me wrong, I get blaming the voters because this was not the election to take a stand. I used to tell people to suck it up, vote for Harris and then hammer your complaints until the DNC gets the point. However, looking at how the DNC has responded to their loss I don’t think there would ever come a time where people could voice their issues with the democratic party. Eventually the dems would’ve suffered such a catastrophic loss because they don’t listen to their voters and keep drifting to the right.
The voters don’t own an allegiance to the democratic party. The party is supposed to get the vote by actually representing the voters. That is not happening and ultimately that is not the fault of the voter, that fault lies solely with the party. They didn’t listen back in 2016 when they lost, they didn’t listen back in 2020 when they did win (people didn’t vote for Biden, they voted against Trump) and so far it seems they’re not going to listened this time as well. You can’t blame the voters when the dems are the ones not listening.
Yeah, the outcome sucks. Yes, America would’ve been better off if Harris had won. But even if Harris had won all it would’ve done is kick the buck to the next election because the underlying issues within the democratic party would’ve remained. Nothing actually gets better until the DNC gets better. And if the DNC doesn’t get any better tear the entire electoral system down and get real parties who would represent the people.
I don’t think there would ever come a time where people could voice their issues with the democratic party. Eventually the dems would’ve suffered such a catastrophic loss because they don’t listen to their voters and keep drifting to the right
Oh hey look it’s the opinion that for the last 2 years would get you nuked on votes getting only upvoted now!
Been yelling this since Joe “only running now to stop Trump” didn’t fucking prop anyone up during his term to run, fucking obvious they dont care because they know the other side is fascism and thought that was enough because they’re out-of-touch rich cunts
We should appreciate learning from mistakes. But we must also ask ourselves how the talking points of the loosing corporate strategy were hammered down and made to be picked up.
People always love to talk about how the far right is ripe with Russian and other foreign and corporate influence. But we need to acknowledge that the same problems hold true for the center and left. Maybe it is less foreign influence but certainly more corporate influence.
I can be mad at both.
Democrats could have tried to improve the lot of the working classes.
People could have voted not to throw their neighbors to the wolves.
Centrists believe that as long as the party keeps moving to the right, it can never fail; only be failed by the stupid voters they hate.
lol. Don’t fuck with Bernie.
