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- cross-posted to:
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That explains why my 2017 Dell XPS 13 9360 with an 8th gen i7 never went to sleep properly. Originally it would just keep running the fans and the battery would drain. Then after a while it seemed to start sleeping but never turned on again so you’d have to reboot anyway. In the end I wiped Windows 11 off it and installed OpenSUSE Tumbleweed. Now shutting the lid works just fine.
I also have an XPS 13 9310 with an 11th gen i7 and Windows 11, and if I close the lid it seems to sleep but sometimes I come back to a completely dead battery.
I don’t really understand the point of Modern Standby. Who wants the laptop to do things when it’s closed and possibly in a backpack with no ventilation? That’s when we want it not to do things.
People are using their smartphones instead of their PCs. That hurts sales. So PCs need to behave more like smartphones, e.g. by being able to notify you of new messages at all times. Then people will surely ditch their smartphones again and buy laptops.
Intel, Microsoft et al never considered that that’s fundamentally not how PCs should work.
My desktop is the same way, “sleep” means the lights are on but nobody’s home.
This is one area where Apple has it pretty right. A Mac will do somethings when ‘asleep’ like download emails and texts. It also can broadcast its location if the ‘Find Me’ function is on. If it’s plugged into power then backups will also run, and background app updates will happen. It does this in a low power mode, so it won’t get hot enough to need fans. It’s worked flawlessly for 20 years. Meanwhile all our PCs are set to ‘never sleep’ and just get shutdown when not in use. I never trust a PC laptop to wake successfully from sleep just by closing the lid.
So instead of looking into the settings and disabling fastboot, you decided to completely wipe the OS and install something else?
And here I thought Linux users understood technology…
It’s not at all a fastboot issue, and I had other reasons to use Linux.
Fastboot has nothing to do with this.
This is one reason I have a “hibernate” shortcut on my desktop so I don’t have to deal with the hassle of having to hunt for that button.
If you are curious, creating your own hibernate shortcut on windows is easy:
- Right click desktop
- Select new > shortcut
- Copy this into the shortcut: “C:\Windows\System32\shutdown.exe /h” obviously replace C:\Windows\ with the installation drive/folder on your machine.
- (Optional: Change the icon for the shortcut to a useful picture)
- Done
Doesn’t this waste more power being connected rather than actually sleeping? With a laptop lid closed, there’s no screen to show notifications on. What’s the point of this?
The point is that Microsoft can run malware whenever and however they like. It is not useful for the user.
Bad behavior in Windows article up on the Fediverse for four hours and no one telling us how their Linux laptop doesn’t have this problem?
My Linux laptop doesn’t have this problem 😁.
Sounds like it’s a combo of bad Windows behavior and buggy implementations, but had to deliver the joke first.
My Linux laptop goes to sleep, but not without errors. Every time I close open that lid it’s a bunch of terminal errors about devices, notably bluetooth. Cool. Thumbs up
No, if your motherboard/BIOS/ACPI/CPU does not support S3, linux will not magically implement it. This has nothing to do with Windows.
My Linux laptop doesn’t have this problem as well except for when I have an external drive plugged via USB which was almost always for backups: then it makes the screen go black and turns the fans on 100% and stays that way. Forever. If I’m fast enough there’s a small window of time where I can mash random buttons to make it wake up again. Luckily this doesn’t seem to happen with external SSDs plugged in via USB so it’s all good 🤷♀️
My Linux laptop doesn’t have this problem, in fact it enters such a deep sleep that it needs to be force shutdown and rebooted if I remove any USB device whilst it’s asleep
Haha, we sound like people complainimg about the weather, it’s either to hot or too cold! Too much sleeping, not enough sleeping, you can’t make these weird humans happy either way! __
To make it worse, newer Intel CPUs can’t even enter S3 state.
I was kinda shocked to switch from an i5-6300U to a i5-1145G7 and not find more options in /sys/power/mem_sleep, but literally only s2idle. At least it works (i believe).
Maybe actual hibernation works now, too.
Go Team Red next time. They still support S3, and probably CSM too.
It’s not like I had a choice, both (or rather: almost all of my devices) are just sorted out tech my dad brought home from work. Even old desktop PCs are good as servers. And my current Laptop just has some small marks, that wouldn’t look good for an employee representing a company, but are irrelevant for me.
If I buy a Laptop, it will definitely be a Framework. Costs like a (cheap) MacBook, but is better in basically every way. And: Fully Team Red,
I feel like this is about tracking. As in microsoft want the PC to wake up and scan wifi networks to figure out where it is, so they can use this data for targeted ads they serve in the start menu and bing, etc.
Maybe, but Microsoft’s competitors are doing a lot better on the battery life front so they’re leaving a lot on the table for competitors to swoop in by not fixing their sleep and wake issues. It was a big consideration for the company I work at to go with Apple machines because they do lots of field work and need the machines running all day. I can say from experience it’s incredibly frustrating to leave home with my MS Surface on a full charge only for it to have majority of the battery drained by the time I pull it out of my backpack due to waking up when it wasn’t supposed to.
The myth about ads in the Windows start menu is strong on Lemmy. I’ve not once got an ad in Windows. There is certainly bloatware but nothing is actively pushing ads to you. My Windows 11 start menu looks like this: https://i.imgur.com/4bBHT3V.png It’s simple and has no ads. The only thing you could argue is an ad is my weather and news widget that comes with Windows 11 but I had to explicitly activate that and I wanted the feed to be there.
It’s not a myth - I just fired up the install of Windows I have in a virtual machine. It’s a clean install, downloaded direct from Microsoft with a license key the gave me through their Developer Program… absolutely nothing has ever been installed on it, and the start menu has ads for:
- Office 365
- Spotify
- There’s a note under that - the more you use your device, the more we’ll show “New Apps” here. So presumably if it wasn’t a clean install, I’d see more ads in the start menu.
- Even worse - the Task Bar has an ad for Microsoft Teams. I can’t figure out how to remove that one either - right click does nothing, left click asks me if I want to “get started” with installing Teams. At least the ones in the start menu can be removed with a few clicks.
They are definitely ads - when you click on them it takes you to the Microsoft store page… except for Office 365 which I assume is part of OneDrive - I can forgive that one, since it’s part of their free cloud storage service and probably should be integrated into the OS. If you’re not doing cloud storage of some kind, you should be.
To argue those are ads would be equal to arguing anything preinstalled on Linux is ads or anything preinstalled on your phone is ads.
The difference is that these programs are not preinstalled. They are shortcuts to install said program.
The spotlight lock screen also has ads, but you can set it to any other lock screen to disable it. There are also ways to keep spotlight and disable the ads, and the ads are at least hidden behind a mouse hover and not immediately visible by default.
I have not seen start menu ads aside from the default bloat, but I also replace it with Start11 so I rarely see the default start menu anymore.
Still, if I’m going to own a $200 license for an operating system, I want no ads at all.
Eh, I don’t see the lock screen as ads. They aren’t trying to sell anything. They are telling you some neat daily facts.
I swear I’ve seen an ad on it before, but I may be misremembering. Either way, I haven’t seen the text in ages anyway, so it doesn’t bug me much.
Sad that the computers can’t get any rest :(((((
So, this is why the laptop reboots while in my bag. Cool -_-
Tell me why~!
Ain’t nothin’ but a heartache
c’mon Microsoft, your PCs are eepy
Well, two of my Arch Linux desktops recently don’t like to shut down but reboot instead. What gives?
Borked ACPI implementation. Lubuntu 18.04 used to do this on my HP 2000 Notebook PC (not my daily driver)
on two completely different systems, one of which is an HP prebuilt desktop and the other a custom made one, when it worked flawlessly before and just suddenly stopped working with Kernel 6.1? Even if that’s an ACPI fuckup by the manufacturer, they seem to have patched out the Kernel’s mitigations for it.
I also want it that way. Keeping my steam games updated or keeping apps like discord or slack showing me online is great. I’d rather a modern operating system solve modern issues with modern solutions. They really should have a mode like this in Linux if they don’t already.
Just because you won’t use a feature doesn’t mean the feature shouldn’t work for anyone ever. That would be like Windows having a bug where it’s stuck in colorblind mode, and a colorblind person comes along and says, “that’s fine, I want it that way”.
First, you can shutdown completely. You can either issue a command line “shutdown /s now” or you can go uncheck the option “Turn On Fast Startup (Recommended)” It’s not a removal of a feature.
Second, this is a default option and Microsoft is choosing the one that works for most humans. You are demanding the thing that inconveniences the most people be the default. So it’d be like a colorblind person demanding that the colorblind mode that works for them be the default way because they are slightly inconvenienced by going to the settings.
You are demanding the thing that inconveniences the most people be the default
Please quote me where I demanded this.
Your colorblind example is literally my example.
I do not care what the default is. Ffs, I don’t even use windows except when I have to for work. My ONLY request is for a feature to work, at all, period.
You can shutdown completely, you can hibernate, or you can edit the power plan settings for sleep and remove the network component. Depending on what you want to do.
It’s like you didn’t even read the article we’re all talking about.
As a Mac user at work I just close the lid and put the laptop in my back. Windows users shut down and power up again the next day.
Whenever I bring this topic up IRL people inundate me with stories about how much issues arise if they just sleep their computers.
Mac is no different though.
Every piece of software has mistakes, the more complex the more mistakes it has.
Normally they don’t give much trouble, but their issues can pile up.
So the longer the computer stays working, the bigger that pile gets. Rebooting makes sure you start from a clean slate.
Servers have less problems with it because they don’t get modified much and their software is tested for long term.
But your Mac, no matter how much you claim it doesn’t cause issues, still does even if you don’t notice them.
Are you trying to convince yourself or the person you’re replying to?
For a phone I’m are more likely than not to have with me, I could understand. But for a laptop, and especially for a desktop, if the machine is asleep, I’m not at it. Why is it great for a computer I don’t have with me to show me as online in discord or slack?
We have all kind of things that can run in the background, if they can continue to run but on exponentially lower power, why not?
Sure, there are things that make sense to do in the background. The example of installing updates was a good one. But I was asking specifically about the example that was given of making you appear online on a chat service, because I just can’t see the use case for that.
Oh my mistake lol, some people are just social and being seen as present is important to them. I’m not one of them but I know a number of people who are - a few years younger than I which I’ve wondered if growing up more linked to socials attributes to that mindset.
People in my group use these tricks for work chats to at least look active if they’re not. For friends? I don’t think I’d care lol.
I’d like the option of choosing between partial sleep and full sleep. When I pack up my work laptop for the weekend it sucks getting to a Monday morning meeting and having the laptop be dead.
there are several ways to do that. You can either uncheck the setting for fast boot which means a full shutdown or you can just issue the shutdown command shutdown /s now
I’d rather just close the lid and have it not be dead the next time I open it. Sure I could do a proper shutdown if I know I’m done for the day, but in an office running from meeting to meeting that’s not always how things work out.
How does shutting down fix the problem of the computer not sleeping properly?
Good luck if you can, on some new motherboards you cannot disable S0x in the BIOS and cannot enable S3 as it does not exist anymore.
You can only use this “S0 idle” which is like your cellphone sleeping, meaning everything runs and/or is somewhat disabled in background. Instead of the BIOS disabling things, it’s the OS and the applications and drivers that have to take steps to go sleeping but it’s way from perfect and takes power anyway.
Problem is with laptop. A laptop in S3 (suspend to RAM) can last a few days, a laptop in S0 idle will last a few hours.
So if I have my laptop in bed at night and then close the laptop lid to go to sleep and wake up, the reason the battery is fucking dead is because the laptop never actually “sleeps” - it just enters a lower power state while still draining battery relatively aggressively?
Like all these complaints about Windows: this can be changed in the settings
Mostly incorrect, entering the BIOS and having the toggle to switch between S0 and S3 (or, “Linux”) sleep does indeed exist but it is hard to identify what models have it (I hear Lenovo’s BIOS simulator helps) and it’s increasingly being removed in newer models or even removed in updates. Dell has no interest in putting it back and recommends hibernate or just powering off the machine when on-the-go.
I made sure the ThinkPad I own personally had the toggle but my work-issued one does not so it is now a Hibernate-only machine. No setting can help that.
Apparently not in Windows settings:
If the BIOS says it supports Modern Standby, Windows takes it at its word and completely disables the ability to enter S3 sleep (classic standby). There’s no official or documented option for disabling Modern Standby through Windows, which is incredibly annoying.
Side note: for a while, there was actually a registry setting you could change to disable Modern Standby on the Windows side. Unfortunately, Microsoft removed it, and to my knowledge, has never added it back.
I’m not a Windows user, so I can’t confirm one way or the other, but toward the end of the end of the article the author gives vendor-specific instructions for disabling the S0 Low Power Idle capability from BIOS.
the point is we shouldn’t be having to do this extra work. MS is one shit misleading and deceptive crappy turd of a company and ll its directors and staff need to be thrown into prison as fucking criminals. no alternative.
