Pay-to-stay (imprisonment) - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org

Very weird that I am so old and have literally never heard this mentioned in a TV show or book or movie or anything.

In four out of five states, if you go to prison, you are literally paying for the time you spend there.

As you can guess, this results in crippling debt as soon as you’re released.

The county gets back a fraction of what they hold over your head the rest of your life until you commit suicide(or die naturally and peacefully with the sword of damocles hanging over your head).

$20-$80 a day according to Rutgers.

Counties apparently sue people and employ wage garnishment to get back the money that majority of people obviously cannot pay back.

https://www.rutgers.edu/news/states-unfairly-burdening-incarcerated-people-pay-stay-fees

  • state_electrician@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
    921·
    6 months ago

    This is some serious “keep hitting yourself” material. It’s not like you can decide to not be incarcerated. $7300-$29200 of debt per year spent in prison. Man, that is some vicious shit. Nobody will be able to convince me that this is not specifically designed to keep people down forever.

    • Varyk@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
      72·
      6 months ago

      Exactly. Recidivism makes a lot more sense now.

      Imagine if you had $30,000 of debt right after you get out of jail with zero contacts and social support.

      Yeah of course you’re going to go back to what you were doing before, you have no other options that you’re aware of.

      Fuck that system.

          • Ragnarok314159@sopuli.xyzEnglish
            2·
            6 months ago

            A lot of the education programs in prison are equally vile. They have people learn a few skills or trades, then when they get out they learn it’s impossible to get a state license in that trade because they are felons.

            • captainlezbian@lemmy.worldEnglish
              2·
              6 months ago

              My wife knows a guy who learned programming in prison. He was apparently extremely lucky in which one he was sent to. And I don’t mean like “was fortunate for how he was charged” no he got sent to the most recent “prison reform” prison. They never close or update the old ones, just use prison reform as a justification to build a new one.

      • Queen HawlSera@lemm.eeEnglish
        91·
        6 months ago

        It’s not rehabilitation, it’s slavery with extra steps

        The amendment banning slavery says you can still enslave people if it’s to punish them for a crime

        Prisons are largely privatized nowadays, creating a demand for prisoners as they profit off of the free labor they get from prisoners

        Rehabilitation efforts in the modern penal system are largely non-existent, with people usually coming out more violent and criminal than they came in, even if it was a bullshit arrest.

        Black people are incarcerated at higher rates and with harsher sentences than white people for the same crimes, they also tend to get found guilty on much weaker evidence than their white peers

        If you think it’s a coincidence, I can’t help you

      • dgmib@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3·
        6 months ago

        And it’s never going to change either. No politician would ever campaign on a platform of prison reform, few would even vote in favor of it. Imagine the attack ads “Jeff Jackson wants to let murders and rapists go free and work at your kid’s school. Jack Jefferson protects kids and is tough on criminals voting three time to ensure growth of his investments in PrisonMegaCorp make sure they rot in prison forever… I’m Jack Jefferson and I approve this message.”

        • Varyk@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
          3·
          6 months ago

          Prison reform can happen in the United States, and it can be used as a platform by Earnest politicians like Bernie Sanders or AOC.

          Prison abuse and reform happened in other countries, and there isn’t any evidence for inherent American exceptionalism

          People are people, so positive prison reforms can happen in the States too.

    • redcalcium@lemmy.instituteEnglish
      171·
      6 months ago

      It would be nice if the prisoners could take class or earn a degree while in prison, at least when they get out they have a new skill or a degree so they have a better chance to get a job to pay off their prison debt.

      • datelmd5sum@lemmy.worldEnglish
        26·
        6 months ago

        In Finland low risk prisoners can even get (or keep) a job. They drive a loaner car from the prison to their job in the morning and then drive back to prison in the afternoon.

            • captainlezbian@lemmy.worldEnglish
              2·
              6 months ago

              Well after they’re done shaking down your loved ones too. It’s ok together you can all theoretically scrape together enough to keep you fed

          • Queen HawlSera@lemm.eeEnglish
            1·
            6 months ago

            It’s actual the one instance where slavery is legal, and most prisoners are black because of obvious racial bias in the court system… I wonder if that’s a concidence…

        • Queen HawlSera@lemm.eeEnglish
          2·
          6 months ago

          As someone who’s lived in the US her life everytime I hear about other first world nations it sounds so idyllic that if you put it in a Utopian Future Sci-Fi novel I’d laugh and call it hopelessly optimistic and just incredibly naive about how humans work…

          But… no… people outside of America actually live like this…

          This is not a cry for help (It totally is, I hate it here)

          But for real though, if America wasn’t a world power (at the expense of its citizens’ well-being) or if there were other world powers strong as or stronger than it that weren’t Russia or China, I would not be even slightly surprised if it offered amnesty to US Citizens fleeing Late Stage Capitalism, at this point it’d be morally justified…

          The UN actually did surveys here and found that Americans (especially in rural areas) experience levels of poverty that said UN believed to only exist in the worst case scenarios of 3rd World Countries. The problem is THAT bad…

          God I hope there’s an afterlife, that may be the only way any of us see true freedom… escaping reality itself.

      • AquaTofana@lemmy.worldEnglish
        8·
        6 months ago

        Omg I can hear my parents now:

        “Wait, I had to work and save and still not be able to afford an education?!?! I sHoUlD hAvE jUsT hElD uP a CoNvEnIeNcE sToRe.”

        I agree with you, 100%, FWIW. I’m just imagining the asinine conversations we’re going to have to have with people who don’t understand that the world doesn’t revolve around them and they’re not the main character.

        • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.worldEnglish
          8·
          6 months ago

          Not always.

          Regardless of the fact that prison education is clearly beneficial for the prison population and wider society, many prison education programs experienced significant budget cuts. States with large prison populations had cut prison education funding by 10%, on average. On top of this, further research has shownthat states with medium-sized populations slashed education budgets by an average of 20%.

          The introduction of the Second Chance Pell Experimental Sites Initiative helped fund additional programs in 2016, although access to postsecondary education in prisons remained limited because the scheme served a maximum of 12,000 prisoners annually. Since, the program has enrolled 22,000 participantsand 130 colleges in the scheme, although only 7,000 individuals have earned credentials. Due to this, many of the 2.1 million people who are currently incarcerated in the U.S. are denied access to education.

          However:

          To find out how people who have been in prison feel about this situation, we conducted a survey of 100 people who have recently been incarcerated. Surprisingly, they told us that they were generally happy with the education opportunities presented to them. Overall, 74% of our respondents told us that they disagreed with the statement “I had no access to educational programs/education whilst incarcerated.”

          As well as being offered an education, many of our respondents told us that they were actively encouraged to take part in these programs. More than 60% of respondents disagreed with the statement “I was not encouraged to participate in educational programs whilst incarcerated.”

          So access to education seems to be one of those things that is at least partially lip service. Education might be offered, it also might be substandard compared to a regular school. However, if it is offered and decent, inmates who have participated in getting a GED or better education state that it did help with avoiding recidivism and having better mental health.

          https://www.degreechoices.com/blog/prison-education-usa/

            • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.worldEnglish
              11·
              6 months ago

              Ok. Glad you weighed in with your expertise. This may not be the exhaustive survey that would offer incontrovertible proof, but it’s what we’ve got. Care to offer anything to the contrary other than an opinion?

              • morriscox@lemmy.worldEnglish
                23·
                6 months ago

                You can cherry-pick anything if you have 22K people to pick from and only need 100. We don’t how and at which point the question was asked. We don’t know the selection process. All we know is that they got 100 people to say something. It shouldn’t matter if we agree with the findings.

                • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  22·
                  6 months ago

                  Ok. So you’re attacking the source, not the argument, while absolving yourself of any effort to contribute to the discussion. Well done.

                  • morriscox@lemmy.worldEnglish
                    12·
                    6 months ago

                    Seriously? You seem to only care that the survey results show what you want them to show. Apparently it doesn’t matter how shoddy the survey was done, as long as it says what you want it to say, you’re okay with that and will attack anyone who points out that it’s flawed. This is Anthony Wakefield territory.

      • Queen HawlSera@lemm.eeEnglish
        2·
        6 months ago

        That would happen if Rehabilitation was the goal, that is not the point of the private prison system, the point is to legalize slavery.

      • havokdj@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2·
        6 months ago

        You can, just not a degree specifically but you can get certifications and a ged in prison

        • Ragnarok314159@sopuli.xyzEnglish
          1·
          6 months ago

          I commented this elsewhere, but a lot of those certifications are not worth anything because if you are a felon you cannot get that state license.

          • havokdj@lemmy.worldEnglish
            11·
            6 months ago

            You absolutely can still use those certifications and they are often the stepping stone to help you get your foot in the door in an industry. I used to work IT in corrections and while not everyone winds up making it, I’ve seen felons go on to make $40/hr doing welding.

            I do not agree with the US when it comes to corrections at all and I think it is blatantly abused in order to incarcerate as many people as possible, but I will give credit where it is due, not ALL hope is lost if you get incarcerated

            • Ragnarok314159@sopuli.xyzEnglish
              1·
              6 months ago

              You can use some of them, but there are a few like a barber’s license (in some states) that cannot be used.

              People spend their time thinking they are reinventing themselves in prison only to find out they cannot work in said field/trade.

      • Daqu@lemm.eeEnglish
        1·
        6 months ago

        If the twos are very small, it might be a heavy three.

    • root@precious.netEnglish
      14·
      6 months ago

      “It’s not like you can decide to not be incarcerated”

      You can though…