• Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    34
    arrow-down
    17
    ·
    1 year ago

    Most Democrat politicians are neo-liberals, meaning they are conservatives by all global standards.

    We need progressives to take over the Dem party. If you are young and progressive, especially if you are in a shitty dead-end job, run for office. Do it. Local or national.

    Sign up, go through the process, announce it for fun on social media. If nothing happens, it was a funny, enlightening experience. There is no upper limit to what can be accomplished if you actually start winning races, though.

    • rjs001@lemmygrad.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      33
      arrow-down
      7
      ·
      1 year ago

      No, we need progressives to reject the Dem party. Why would be reform what is evil rather than smashing it and building new?

      • Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        12
        arrow-down
        26
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        The third party approach has been proven ineffective. Party take-overs, however, are so effective that I have witnessed it multiple times in my lifetime. The Republicans have been taken over twice in just the past two decades.

        Dominating a party that is not one of the two recognized standard parties will only divide votes and disempower us. Encouraging progressives to form a third party is literally a strategy that has been pushed by conservatives several times. It’s important we see the value in taking over the existing juggernaut instead.

        • MxGonnaGiveItToYa@lemmygrad.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          20
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Why not take over the republican party rather than or as well as the democrats if these actions are successful. Because so far the democrats are very much hardened against progressives. Look at your AOC and how she’s now indistinguishable from Pelosi an activist who supposedly cared about implementing uhc. Also gonna say look at how Bernie who wanted moderate reform had a massively corrupt primary and the media complex come crashing down on him.

          • Beliriel@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            13
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            Because you’d have to run on a whole lot of bullshit arguments and by the end of it (if you make it there) you’re just another brainwashed republican. A takeover is not a sudden process it’s slowly boiling the frog and you can’t take over the regressive republicans with a progressive argument set. They would laugh you out of the room. Your platform has to be similar enough that they tolerate you.

            You wanna take over the republicans only with “I wanna be against dems”? Try it. But what are you gonna tell the antiabortionists, what are you going to tell the rightwing antigovernment people, what are you going to tell the fascists and nazis and what are you going to tell the racist rural white folk and the bible belt? Are you going to support prolifers suddenly, are you suddenly going to rant against the criminal black population? Congrats, you successfully integrated into the republicans and became invisible.

            • JucheBot1988@lemmygrad.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              12
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              A takeover is not a sudden process it’s slowly boiling the frog

              Let me see, when did “progressives” start turning on the heat? Must have been, oh, 2003 with the Kerry campaign. A good twenty years (at least), with nothing to show for it but lots of corpses in Iraq and Syria and the Ukraine. That’s a slow burn, all right.

              You wanna take over the republicans only with “I wanna be against dems”?

              All right, I’ll entertain this thought experiment.

              But what are you gonna tell the antiabortionists

              I’d tell them that while I may not agree in total with their beliefs, anti-abortion sentiment recognizes a fundamental truth, which is that in the US, abortion is promoted as genocidal tool against the working class. And this is something nobody wants to talk about. Working class people have the most abortions, but also tend, statistically, to oppose abortion more. This is because for many working class women, abortion is a matter of economic neccesity; they would have liked to carry a pregnancy to term, but had to abort so that they could continue to pay rent and put food on the table. In other words, the US makes reproduction a hobby for rich white women and their mates – i.e., parasites. Poor and especially poor non-white women are granted the “mercy” of termination. Every working class person has either been in that situation or knows someone who has.

              Furthermore, I would say to anti-abortion activists that, unlike liberals and radlibs, I don’t make a fetish of abortion. If they want to set up a system, such as existed in Stalin’s Russia and which exists in present day Nicaragua, where abortion is illegal but extensive social services exist for pregnant women, I would have no particular objection. Socialism is different in different countries, and the flourishing of the working class in their particular material setting is more important than any abstract liberal “right.”

              what are you going to tell the rightwing antigovernment people

              That their distrust of government, this particular goverment, is more than merited. I too am opposed to the US goverment. We want very different things to come after. But because historical and dialectical materialism are a thing, any actual effective movement against the US government will take place in the context of the ongoing global anti-imperialist struggle – which latter is moving objectively towards socialism.

              what are you going to tell the fascists and nazis

              Do you mean the Democrats who are arming and funding ideoogical Nazis in Ukraine?

              what are you going to tell the racist rural white folk and the bible belt

              Lemmygrad rules prevent me from saying just how much this disgusts me. I lived among these people. A lot of them hold stupid views and are not sensitive in their language, but few of them are actual racists; I’ve encountered real, blatant racism far more often among the middle class. What working class are you actually in support of? College-educated champagne socialists with apartments in New York and LA?

              And there you have it, my plan to take over the Republican party. It wouldn’t work. But I’d have at least as much success as you “progressives” have ever had in taking over the Democrats.

          • Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            24
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            Your commentary is nonsense and easily dismissed. Nice try, though?

            Your upset just illustrates how afraid conservatives are that progressives could take over the Democrats. Thank you for that!

    • LarkinDePark@lemmygrad.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      13
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      You cannot fix the Democrat party from the inside. Shit, you cannot fix the USA from the inside. It’s not broken, it’s working perfectly as designed. You can’t vote your way out of this shit. Not if you had 500 years to do it instead of 20.

    • atticus88th@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      We had several great progressives running in last years primary and general up near Seattle. All were crushed by incumbents.

      Guess folks just like the way things are.

    • PsychedSy@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      11
      ·
      1 year ago

      Honestly, once you hit 25 or whatever pick a party and run. Green or libertarian would be easiest. Whatever fits where you live. It gives you a different perspective on elections.

    • Gorilladrums@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      19
      ·
      1 year ago

      Most Democrat politicians are neo-liberals, meaning they are conservatives by all global standards.

      This is the most brain damaged talking point, the Democrats are more left than the vast majority of the globe and Republicans are somewhere in the center. Unless your globe only consists of Canada, Scandinavia, and New Zealand then the Democrats aren’t conservative

      • SovereignState@lemmygrad.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        14
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        My friend, you are in the wrong space. This is a space for people who are actually interested in studying political economy, not bad faith morons.

        • Gorilladrums@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          18
          ·
          1 year ago

          You’re literally a fucking tankie who supports Russia invading Ukraine. You’re just outing yourself here as a bad faith moron.

          • 🏳️‍⚧️ 新星 [she/they]@lemmygrad.ml
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            11
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            You have it flipped, we don’t support NATO’s war of aggression against Russia.

            Ukrainian President Yanukovych chose to have closer ties with Russia, which resulted in the Euromaidan coup in 2013-14, which directly caused this war.

            I support the people of Ukraine and would like to see peace. The Zelensky government should end the war and cede Russia the land whose people want to return to Russia anyways.

    • Pokethat@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      28
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      I don’t even know what a lot of the stuff means anymore tbh. I just consider myself economically classically liberal and true centrist on social issues

      The people focusing hard on the social far left and far right are distracting people from the fact that the government is not helping out the common person economically.

      Frankly I think inflation is kind of here to stay for a while as the US painfully weans itself out of China and a world with a bunch of cheap former Soviet raw material inputs, nevermind a global wheat shortage due to the situation in Ukraine.

      The fed really does have to slowly jack up rates to create a bigger buffer for the next hard recession. What this means, I my very limited understanding, is that everything just costs more until supply is consolidated back home and nearby places like Canada, Mexico, and some Central American countries

      • JucheBot1988@lemmygrad.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        19
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        I don’t even know what a lot of the stuff means anymore tbh. I just consider myself economically classically liberal and true centrist on social issues

        The economics understander (as per 7th grade social studies) has entered the chat.

      • 🏳️‍⚧️ 新星 [she/they]@lemmygrad.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        10
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        The people focusing hard on the social far left and far right are distracting people from the fact that the government is not helping out the common person economically.

        If you’re talking about culture war crap, then sure, I agree. It’s manufactured outrage to distract from class issues.

        The fed really does have to slowly jack up rates to create a bigger buffer for the next hard recession.

        So you acknowledge the government isn’t helping the working class, and then proceed to support the government not helping? Do you believe in Reaganomics by any chance?