Fine yes, whatever, you “win” I guess then, congrats. Electoralism is saved, let’s all vote for the party that pledges to kill trans people slowly and painfully instead of the other party that wants to do it quicker, because nothing sends the establishment a clear message about how unacceptable their behaviour is quite like bending down and kissing the ring and letting them know that no matter how much we grumble and complain about them not representing us, we’ll still gladly show up and announce to them that no matter much they want to kill us all, we’ll still participate in their rituals and give them as much validity and legality as they want.
I can’t believe I’m speaking to an anarchist who is pro-capitalist electoralism and lesser-evilism. I hope your partner gets out safe, but unlike yourself, apparently, I also want to see the millions of other trans people in the US safe. All of them have loved ones, and not all of them will make it out by voting for the “kill 50% of them” guy instead of the “100% of them” guy.
I’m not even American, and one of your comments made it seem like you aren’t either, so your defence of this horrific system is mind boggling. Would you have voted for Göring over Hitler because he promised a more “moderate” holocaust? Because that’s what it sounds like you’re doing here.
Participating in their elections gives them legitimacy, the people refusing to participate shows that they need to change their ways if they want the support of the people. What good is protesting their actions 364 days of the year if on election day you just line up like a good little peon and behave yourself? That’s the most important time to refuse to recognise their legitimacy, to make it clear their actions will not be tolerated by the people. The system in the US is as fucked up as it is right now partially because for the past 50 years people have been insisting on voting for the “lesser evil” instead of demanding a good politician, or demanding an entire systemic change. This isn’t idealism, voting for the same horrible leaders who pledge to commit different levels of atrocities and hoping that if we just vote extra hard this time they’ll change their ways despite 0 incentive to do so is.
You’re constructing a false dichotomy between supporting electoralism and not voting. And you’re conflating voting with supporting electoralism. I don’t support the US, I don’t support Biden in any single tiny way that can harm socialists or socialism, and my partner’s vote does not make the US electoral system stronger. There’s nothing I’ve said which in any way helps capitalist false democracy maintain power. You’re inventing false positions and false actions to attribute to me.
So…voting in an electoral system isn’t showing tacit or passive approval, or at least tolerance, of that system? I guess it’s just a natural thing, like breathing air, something never to be questioned or challenged, perfectly normal and natural to be forced to choose between the slow death or the fast death of millions.
You accused me of ignoring your question earlier, but haven’t actually responded to any of mine. It’s Germany 1937, and you’re telling me that Göring isn’t perfect, but he’s the best Nazi we’ve got, instead of just opposing the entire system for its inhumanity. Voting will not save your loved ones. Complacency is how things have gotten to this point, and voting is just showing how complacent you really are, as far as the bourgeoisie are concerned.
Sorry for being so insulting, I don’t blame you for getting mad, this is clearly a very personal thing for you and I was quite tactless in talking to you. I think it’s best if we stop this conversation here, it will just be going in circles after this. Feel free to get the last clever word in, as I’m not planning to respond beyond this, so when I don’t respond, imagine that I’m just so “owned” by your clever defense of bourgeoisie electoralism that I’m going to move to the states and get US citizenship just so I can vote for Biden in this next election. I hope things work out well for you and your partner.
It’s Germany 1937, and you’re telling me that Göring isn’t perfect, but he’s the best Nazi we’ve got, instead of just opposing the entire system for its inhumanity
If it were 1937 and I were in Germany, I’d be in a concentration camp because I’m trans. I don’t think I’m going to be submitting any ballots from there. But if by some miracle the Nazis set up a voting booth in Auschwitz, I would cast my vote for Göring in between fashioning a lump of broken brick into a shiv with which to stab the first Nazi bastard I get my hands on.
You seem to think that ballots are made of nitroglycerin and that Biden is stuffing his votes into bombs for Israel to drop on Gaza. I assure you, the number of votes cast in the Federal election does not affect the US military’s munitions capacity.
Fine yes, whatever, you “win” I guess then, congrats. Electoralism is saved, let’s all vote for the party that pledges to kill trans people slowly and painfully instead of the other party that wants to do it quicker, because nothing sends the establishment a clear message about how unacceptable their behaviour is quite like bending down and kissing the ring and letting them know that no matter how much we grumble and complain about them not representing us, we’ll still gladly show up and announce to them that no matter much they want to kill us all, we’ll still participate in their rituals and give them as much validity and legality as they want.
I can’t believe I’m speaking to an anarchist who is pro-capitalist electoralism and lesser-evilism. I hope your partner gets out safe, but unlike yourself, apparently, I also want to see the millions of other trans people in the US safe. All of them have loved ones, and not all of them will make it out by voting for the “kill 50% of them” guy instead of the “100% of them” guy.
I’m not even American, and one of your comments made it seem like you aren’t either, so your defence of this horrific system is mind boggling. Would you have voted for Göring over Hitler because he promised a more “moderate” holocaust? Because that’s what it sounds like you’re doing here.
Participating in their elections gives them legitimacy, the people refusing to participate shows that they need to change their ways if they want the support of the people. What good is protesting their actions 364 days of the year if on election day you just line up like a good little peon and behave yourself? That’s the most important time to refuse to recognise their legitimacy, to make it clear their actions will not be tolerated by the people. The system in the US is as fucked up as it is right now partially because for the past 50 years people have been insisting on voting for the “lesser evil” instead of demanding a good politician, or demanding an entire systemic change. This isn’t idealism, voting for the same horrible leaders who pledge to commit different levels of atrocities and hoping that if we just vote extra hard this time they’ll change their ways despite 0 incentive to do so is.
You’re constructing a false dichotomy between supporting electoralism and not voting. And you’re conflating voting with supporting electoralism. I don’t support the US, I don’t support Biden in any single tiny way that can harm socialists or socialism, and my partner’s vote does not make the US electoral system stronger. There’s nothing I’ve said which in any way helps capitalist false democracy maintain power. You’re inventing false positions and false actions to attribute to me.
So…voting in an electoral system isn’t showing tacit or passive approval, or at least tolerance, of that system? I guess it’s just a natural thing, like breathing air, something never to be questioned or challenged, perfectly normal and natural to be forced to choose between the slow death or the fast death of millions.
You accused me of ignoring your question earlier, but haven’t actually responded to any of mine. It’s Germany 1937, and you’re telling me that Göring isn’t perfect, but he’s the best Nazi we’ve got, instead of just opposing the entire system for its inhumanity. Voting will not save your loved ones. Complacency is how things have gotten to this point, and voting is just showing how complacent you really are, as far as the bourgeoisie are concerned.
Sorry for being so insulting, I don’t blame you for getting mad, this is clearly a very personal thing for you and I was quite tactless in talking to you. I think it’s best if we stop this conversation here, it will just be going in circles after this. Feel free to get the last clever word in, as I’m not planning to respond beyond this, so when I don’t respond, imagine that I’m just so “owned” by your clever defense of bourgeoisie electoralism that I’m going to move to the states and get US citizenship just so I can vote for Biden in this next election. I hope things work out well for you and your partner.
If it were 1937 and I were in Germany, I’d be in a concentration camp because I’m trans. I don’t think I’m going to be submitting any ballots from there. But if by some miracle the Nazis set up a voting booth in Auschwitz, I would cast my vote for Göring in between fashioning a lump of broken brick into a shiv with which to stab the first Nazi bastard I get my hands on.
You seem to think that ballots are made of nitroglycerin and that Biden is stuffing his votes into bombs for Israel to drop on Gaza. I assure you, the number of votes cast in the Federal election does not affect the US military’s munitions capacity.