The vast majority supported the Oct 7th attack and still do months later… Did They think Israel would let it slide?
Seventy-two percent of respondents said they believed the Hamas decision to launch the cross-border rampage in southern Israel was “correct” given its outcome so far, while 22% said it was “incorrect”.
A two-month investigation by The Times uncovered painful new details, establishing that the attacks against women were not isolated events but part of a broader pattern of gender-based violence on Oct. 7.
In a grainy video, you can see her, lying on her back, dress torn, legs spread, vagina exposed. Her face is burned beyond recognition and her right hand covers her eyes…Based largely on the video evidence — which was verified by The New York Times — Israeli police officials said they believed that Ms. [Gal] Abdush was raped, and she has become a symbol of the horrors visited upon Israeli women and girls during the Oct. 7 attacks.
The Times viewed photographs of one woman’s corpse that emergency responders discovered in the rubble of a besieged kibbutz with dozens of nails driven into her thighs and groin.
Sapir, a 24-year-old accountant, has become one of the Israeli police’s key witnesses. In a two-hour interview outside a cafe in southern Israel, she recounted seeing groups of heavily armed gunmen rape and kill at least five women…at 8 a.m. on Oct. 7, she was hiding under the low branches of a bushy tamarisk tree, just off Route 232, about four miles southwest of the party. She had been shot in the back…felt faint…covered herself in dry grass and lay as still as she could. About 15 meters from her hiding place she saw motorcycles, cars and trucks pulling up. She saw about 100 men, most of them dressed in military fatigues and combat boots, a few in dark sweatsuits, getting in and out of the vehicles. The men congregated along the road and passed between them assault rifles, grenades, small missiles — and badly wounded women. “It was like an assembly point.” The first victim she saw was a young woman with copper-color hair, blood running down her back, pants pushed down to her knees. One man pulled her by the hair and made her bend over. Another penetrated her, Sapir said, and every time she flinched, he plunged a knife into her back…While one terrorist raped her, another pulled out a box cutter and sliced off her breast…“One continues to rape her, and the other throws her breast to someone else, and they play with it, throw it, and it falls on the road,”…the men sliced her face and then the woman fell out of view. Around the same time, she saw three other women raped and terrorists carrying the severed heads of three more women…Yura Karol, a 22-year-old security consultant, said he was hiding in the same spot, and he can be seen in one of Sapir’s photos… In an interview, Mr. Karol said he barely lifted his head to look at the road but he also described seeing a woman raped and killed
Raz Cohen…saw five men, wearing civilian clothes, all carrying knives and one carrying a hammer, dragging a woman across the ground. She was young, naked and screaming. “They all gather around her,” Mr. Cohen said. “She’s standing up. They start raping her. I saw the men standing in a half circle around her. One penetrates her. She screams. I still remember her voice, screams without words.” “Then one of them raises a knife,” he said, “and they just slaughtered her.” Shoam Gueta, one of Mr. Cohen’s friends and a fashion designer, said the two were hiding together in the streambed. He said he saw at least four men step out of the van and attack the woman, who ended up “between their legs.” He said that they were “talking, giggling and shouting,” and that one of them stabbed her with a knife repeatedly, “literally butchering her.”
Yinon Rivlin, a member of the rave’s production team who lost two brothers in the attacks, said that after hiding from the killers, he emerged from a ditch and made his way to the parking area, east of the party, along Route 232, looking for survivors. Near the highway, he said, he found the body of a young woman, on her stomach, no pants or underwear, legs spread apart. He said her vagina area appeared to have been sliced open, “as if someone tore her apart.”
There are at least three women and one man who were sexually assaulted and survived, according to Gil Horev, a spokesman for Israel’s Ministry of Welfare and Social Affairs. “None of them has been willing to come physically for treatment,” he said. Two therapists said they were working with a woman who was gang raped at the rave and was in no condition to talk to investigators or reporters.
My sympathy for those who support Oct 7th is at 0.
No doubt the attack on Oct 7 was horrible. But please tell us how you justify the ongoing genocide and human right violations that Israel is committing. Saying that the vast majority of innocent civilians supported it is such bullshit.
Saying that the vast majority of innocent civilians supported it is such bullshit.
In what way is it bullshit. The polls are clear, 72% support the Hamas attacks. Is 72% not vast to you or something?
But please tell us how you justify
The bombing of Dresden in WW2 by allied forces had a horrific toll on civilians. It didn’t suddenly mean that the allies were unjust in the war and should have stopped fighting.
Same thing for Israel. They have every right to fight Hamas and they are doing so. With a narrow strip of land like Gaza you’re going to have civilian casualties. That doesn’t make it a genocide. It’s war.
I don’t really see how this survey justifies the war crimes Israel is committing. It was asking people if they thought the attack was justified now that Israel had been murdering and starving them for about two months (ignoring the very long history of more of the same!). And other surveys don’t exactly line up with what you view as support.
About 23% of respondents said they have a great deal or quite a lot of trust in Hamas; 52% had no trust at all in Hamas.
Your second point is terrible. The bombing of Dresden is also a war crime. And what makes this situation genocide is the willful military targeting of civilians, the mass starvation imposed by Israel, and destruction of all civilian medical personnel and infrastructure among many other things.
And what makes this situation genocide is the willful military targeting of civilians
As of December 22 Israel struck Gaza 22,000 times since Oct 7th and yet the civilian death toll during that time was 20,000. Do you honestly believe Israel was trying to kill civilians looking at the numbers? It defies all logic.
If they were “willfully targeting civilians” as you claim the number of dead would be in the hundreds of thousands. The reality is Israel warned people to leave areas it was targeting. It actively avoids civlians, hence the low death toll.
and destruction of all civilian medical personnel and infrastructure among many other things.
You say medical infrastructure while ignoring the Hamas base inside. Like it or not hospitals become valid targets. They’re not a safe space for Hamas to kill from.
As of December 22 Israel struck Gaza 22,000 times since Oct 7th and yet the civilian death toll during that time was 20,000. Do you honestly believe Israel was trying to kill civilians looking at the numbers? It defies all logic.
Wow that’s about one civilian murder per bomb!
If they were “willfully targeting civilians” as you claim the number of dead would be in the hundreds of thousands. The reality is Israel warned people to leave areas it was targeting. It actively avoids civlians, hence the low death toll.
The low low death toll of about 3.7%! So far. I don’t really see the argument.
You say medical infrastructure while ignoring the Hamas base inside. Like it or not hospitals become valid targets. They’re not a safe space for Hamas to kill from.
Attacking a hospital is not necessarily a war crime by Geneva Conventions, but there are strict requirements even if this is true. What Israel is doing is considered a war crime under the Geneva Conventions.
As stated by Palestinians on the ground Hamas steals it but somehow Israel is to blame for that as well?
Israel is the entity responsible for blocking supplies from entering Gaza, so yes.
Exactly. It’s extremely low for such a high density location. Bombing is neccassary and the civilian death toll will never be 0 but less than 1 death per bomb is stellar considering the bombs are up to 2,000 pounds and capable of leveling entire buildings.
Israel is the entity responsible for blocking supplies from entering Gaza, so yes.
I love how the Egyptian border with Gaza always gets forgotten about. No Arab country actually cares about Gaza but they do love to use them as pawns.
Are you suggesting that the Palestinian people asked for this?
The vast majority supported the Oct 7th attack and still do months later… Did They think Israel would let it slide?
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/
And saying Oct 7 attack doesn’t do it justice. Watch the videos. Read the reports. It was humanity in it’s most disgusting form:
NYT investigation: ‘Screams Without Words’: How Hamas Weaponized Sexual Violence on Oct. 7
Gifted article, here’s an archive link as well.
Excerpts:
A two-month investigation by The Times uncovered painful new details, establishing that the attacks against women were not isolated events but part of a broader pattern of gender-based violence on Oct. 7.
In a grainy video, you can see her, lying on her back, dress torn, legs spread, vagina exposed. Her face is burned beyond recognition and her right hand covers her eyes…Based largely on the video evidence — which was verified by The New York Times — Israeli police officials said they believed that Ms. [Gal] Abdush was raped, and she has become a symbol of the horrors visited upon Israeli women and girls during the Oct. 7 attacks.
The Times viewed photographs of one woman’s corpse that emergency responders discovered in the rubble of a besieged kibbutz with dozens of nails driven into her thighs and groin.
Sapir, a 24-year-old accountant, has become one of the Israeli police’s key witnesses. In a two-hour interview outside a cafe in southern Israel, she recounted seeing groups of heavily armed gunmen rape and kill at least five women…at 8 a.m. on Oct. 7, she was hiding under the low branches of a bushy tamarisk tree, just off Route 232, about four miles southwest of the party. She had been shot in the back…felt faint…covered herself in dry grass and lay as still as she could. About 15 meters from her hiding place she saw motorcycles, cars and trucks pulling up. She saw about 100 men, most of them dressed in military fatigues and combat boots, a few in dark sweatsuits, getting in and out of the vehicles. The men congregated along the road and passed between them assault rifles, grenades, small missiles — and badly wounded women. “It was like an assembly point.” The first victim she saw was a young woman with copper-color hair, blood running down her back, pants pushed down to her knees. One man pulled her by the hair and made her bend over. Another penetrated her, Sapir said, and every time she flinched, he plunged a knife into her back…While one terrorist raped her, another pulled out a box cutter and sliced off her breast…“One continues to rape her, and the other throws her breast to someone else, and they play with it, throw it, and it falls on the road,”…the men sliced her face and then the woman fell out of view. Around the same time, she saw three other women raped and terrorists carrying the severed heads of three more women…Yura Karol, a 22-year-old security consultant, said he was hiding in the same spot, and he can be seen in one of Sapir’s photos… In an interview, Mr. Karol said he barely lifted his head to look at the road but he also described seeing a woman raped and killed
Raz Cohen…saw five men, wearing civilian clothes, all carrying knives and one carrying a hammer, dragging a woman across the ground. She was young, naked and screaming. “They all gather around her,” Mr. Cohen said. “She’s standing up. They start raping her. I saw the men standing in a half circle around her. One penetrates her. She screams. I still remember her voice, screams without words.” “Then one of them raises a knife,” he said, “and they just slaughtered her.” Shoam Gueta, one of Mr. Cohen’s friends and a fashion designer, said the two were hiding together in the streambed. He said he saw at least four men step out of the van and attack the woman, who ended up “between their legs.” He said that they were “talking, giggling and shouting,” and that one of them stabbed her with a knife repeatedly, “literally butchering her.” Yinon Rivlin, a member of the rave’s production team who lost two brothers in the attacks, said that after hiding from the killers, he emerged from a ditch and made his way to the parking area, east of the party, along Route 232, looking for survivors. Near the highway, he said, he found the body of a young woman, on her stomach, no pants or underwear, legs spread apart. He said her vagina area appeared to have been sliced open, “as if someone tore her apart.”
There are at least three women and one man who were sexually assaulted and survived, according to Gil Horev, a spokesman for Israel’s Ministry of Welfare and Social Affairs. “None of them has been willing to come physically for treatment,” he said. Two therapists said they were working with a woman who was gang raped at the rave and was in no condition to talk to investigators or reporters.
My sympathy for those who support Oct 7th is at 0.
#gaza
No doubt the attack on Oct 7 was horrible. But please tell us how you justify the ongoing genocide and human right violations that Israel is committing. Saying that the vast majority of innocent civilians supported it is such bullshit.
In what way is it bullshit. The polls are clear, 72% support the Hamas attacks. Is 72% not vast to you or something?
The bombing of Dresden in WW2 by allied forces had a horrific toll on civilians. It didn’t suddenly mean that the allies were unjust in the war and should have stopped fighting.
Same thing for Israel. They have every right to fight Hamas and they are doing so. With a narrow strip of land like Gaza you’re going to have civilian casualties. That doesn’t make it a genocide. It’s war.
I don’t really see how this survey justifies the war crimes Israel is committing. It was asking people if they thought the attack was justified now that Israel had been murdering and starving them for about two months (ignoring the very long history of more of the same!). And other surveys don’t exactly line up with what you view as support.
https://news.stanford.edu/report/2023/12/05/palestinians-views-oct-7/
Your second point is terrible. The bombing of Dresden is also a war crime. And what makes this situation genocide is the willful military targeting of civilians, the mass starvation imposed by Israel, and destruction of all civilian medical personnel and infrastructure among many other things.
Are you posting from Argentina?
As of December 22 Israel struck Gaza 22,000 times since Oct 7th and yet the civilian death toll during that time was 20,000. Do you honestly believe Israel was trying to kill civilians looking at the numbers? It defies all logic.
If they were “willfully targeting civilians” as you claim the number of dead would be in the hundreds of thousands. The reality is Israel warned people to leave areas it was targeting. It actively avoids civlians, hence the low death toll.
You say medical infrastructure while ignoring the Hamas base inside. Like it or not hospitals become valid targets. They’re not a safe space for Hamas to kill from.
As stated by Palestinians on the ground Hamas steals it but somehow Israel is to blame for that as well? https://youtu.be/NBjvYkNzuAA?si=uyjkIc7d6UMsnnqV
Life in Gaza will not improve until Hamas is destroyed.
No?
Wow that’s about one civilian murder per bomb!
The low low death toll of about 3.7%! So far. I don’t really see the argument.
Attacking a hospital is not necessarily a war crime by Geneva Conventions, but there are strict requirements even if this is true. What Israel is doing is considered a war crime under the Geneva Conventions.
Israel is the entity responsible for blocking supplies from entering Gaza, so yes.
Exactly. It’s extremely low for such a high density location. Bombing is neccassary and the civilian death toll will never be 0 but less than 1 death per bomb is stellar considering the bombs are up to 2,000 pounds and capable of leveling entire buildings.
I love how the Egyptian border with Gaza always gets forgotten about. No Arab country actually cares about Gaza but they do love to use them as pawns.
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