• Sanctus@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    You’d think with the whole world watching we could at least temporarily extract these extreme innocents. War is hell, always.

  • roofuskit@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    Don’t worry, all you have to do is hand your babies over to the IDF. They’ll give them back just like the last time they asked you off your land…

    • NotBillMurray@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      All 200 liters they left outside in an active warzone? Yep, that would be super helpful. Might even keep the generators going for 10 more minutes.

      • DarkGamer@kbin.social
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        10 months ago

        It was 300 L, they probably weren’t given more because Hamas is known to siphon fuel from hospitals. I suspect they could have negotiated for more deliveries of fuel. Clearly Hamas would rather parade dead Palestinian babies before the media.

        • Sanctus@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          So how do power dynamics work for you? Do you think the little guy’s voice is always heard in this just world? Do you think that when you are vulnerable the powerful will step in to help? Because right now, the Palestinians have a double dicking of IDF supported by the US. Do you think the Palestinians or even Hamas has any leverage whatsoever? Because by the way its going, I don’t think they have shit.

          You’re jumping in every post defending Israel. But why? We are standing on the other side of the world, handing people our bombs to blow up other people we don’t know. I don’t know about you, but that means I don’t really have a dog in this race except for my tax dollars and morality.

          Usually, the institution with the money and bigger military has the power to capitulate. Because they’re less vulnerable and more able to take risks. If you think the small guerrilla force has the power here, you should probably review the last 80 years in the middle east AND watch Star Wars for good measure. Theres a reason the rebels didn’t negotiate, and its relatively similar here ironically enough.

          • DarkGamer@kbin.social
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            10 months ago

            So how do power dynamics work for you? Do you think the little guy’s voice is always heard in this just world? Do you think that when you are vulnerable the powerful will step in to help? Because right now, the Palestinians have a double dicking of IDF supported by the US. Do you think the Palestinians or even Hamas has any leverage whatsoever? Because by the way its going, I don’t think they have shit.

            I think there’s a lot more to this conflict than little guy/big guy. Sometimes the underdog isn’t the hero. Sometimes one must acknowledge hard realities. I think Palestinians had all the leverage at one point but they squandered it by launching one failed war after another. Unfortunately many people just see what appears to be a superpower punching down asymmetrically and react to that without greater historical context.

            You’re jumping in every post defending Israel. But why?

            A few reasons:

            1) While they certainly have their faults, I believe Israel is the more sympathetic party. Why?:

            • Instigation: Most of the Palestinian grievances and annexations cited as reasons for this ongoing conflict are a direct consequence of hostilities they instigated. (The earliest recorded conflicts in the late 1800’s, the first massacres in Mandatory Palestine, the war in '48, the war in '67, constant terror attacks ever since…)
            • Voting for violence and genocide: When given a chance to elect their own leadership, Gazans chose Hamas, an explicitly genocidal group that rejects diplomacy in favor of jihad. This war is a direct consequence of this. (Yes, I know they had a coup and haven’t held elections in some time, but that’s an unsurprising consequence of electing fascist terrorists.)
            • Holding Israel to higher humanitarian standards than their own forces exhibit: When Jordan, as part of Palestine’s Arab League, annexed the West Bank and Jerusalem they were not shy about genociding Jews from these territories or indiscriminately shelling the Jewish quarter until it was empty.
            • Genocide of Jews, denial of equal rights, terrorist attacks, and unwillingness to negotiate or compromise are supported by most of the Palestinian population: The vast majority of Palestinians approve of Hamas’ platforms and methods. I can’t support a nation that desires this. Say what you will about Israel’s actions, they at least are sensitive to genocide and have been relatively very reasonable and restrained compared to what Palestine wants for them and has exhibited when they have the upper hand.
            • Sympathy for Oct 7: I watched videos of the slaughter of EDM kids harmlessly dancing and read the accounts of the atrocities committed that day. Any national regime that would do something like that is begging for violent reprisal and deserves to be toppled by whatever means are nessicary.

            2) The Realpolitik.

            • Only Palestineans can end this conflict short-term. Palestine has the capability to end this conflict immediately by making concessions, and the consequences for them if they don’t should be obvious by now. Israel will eventually win and there will be no Palestine if they do not sue for peace, it will take a while but their remaining lands will likely ebb away and things will likely grow ever more dire.
            • Palestineans cannot win against Israel with violence: Militarily, Israel has all the cards. This needs to be recognized and acknowledged for any progress to be made. If they do wish to remain belligerent they will be treated like a hostile nation, ultimately this is the cause of all the deaths there.

            3) Balance.

            • A lot of people on the feddiverse are misrepresenting what appears to be happening and portraying what I consider to be a biased, inaccurate, one-sided pro-Palestinean view of things: If the discourse were a bit more reserved, balanced, and fair, and seemed less like an angry pitchfork-wielding mob, I would probably be keeping my opinions to myself and commenting far less.
            • Hysteria & hyperbole: People are making Israel out to be monstrous by accusing them of apartheid, genocide, and all manner of evil misdeeds, and while one can certainly make a case for this, (and many, like amnesty international, have,) I found that once I looked into these accusations they didn’t seem appropriate. Israel is not committing monstrous deeds with the intention of maintaining a racial hierarchy, but rather this is the net result of people trying to do everything they can to keep themselves safe for 70 years, while trying not to sink to the inhumane depths that they experienced firsthand in recent history, (or that their enemies still exhibit for them.)