I feel like this is probably pretty effective. I feel like it should be a thing.
E: see also https://beehaw.org/post/16953380 E2: https://19thnews.org/2024/11/4b-movement-south-korea-social-media-trump-presidency/
I’m fine with no sex if those Nazi men can’t have any too!
Read Lysistrata and good luck to you.
When the system becomes too odious, non-participation is one way of dealing with it.
Everyone in here arguing against 4b need to take a look in the mirror. The fact that so many of you are trying push against it is in itself a demonstration of why it’s necessary. Respecting bodily autonomy does not have to be hard.
Bodily autonomy is the ability to choose 4b, not the reason to do so. Folks arguing against 4b have not disrespected the ability to do 4b. Therefore bodily autonomy is still respected.
Yes, posting a message on the internet while violating nobody’s personal space or rights is exactly the same as that picture. You did it! You won the internet! You can go away now.
Go away
Now
FYI, you’re on Beehaw. Please be(e) nice. I know it’s crazy times right now, I get it, but we do want folks to still abide by our rules and such here. Thanks.
Me, a lesbian: Aktivsm
It’s interesting that the response to men going their own way (MGTOW) is indifference or at most pity whilst WGTOW are met with hostility.
Mgtow was not met with indifference. They’ve been consistently criticized since the movement first started, and they quickly evolved into a cabal of Nazi-adjacent freaks. Fuck those guys.
There may be some good that could come from a men’s movement for self actualization and improvement, but mgtow sure as shit wasn’t that
MGTOW should be indifferent, but they kinda got hijacked into another red pill BS place. Their lives revolve around hate for women and not actually going your own way and finding what makes you content.
Wouldn’t this just create even more conservatives if they are the only ones having children? Seems counterintuitive.
it’s also a quite terf movement. It basically mirrors MGTOW. I don’t think people should follow them.
Yeah, and men who support women’s right. Need to support this as well.
Seriously, look at recent events in Texas. Having sex with women while republicans are in power. It is a potential death sentence for those women.
Unless you can groove beyond doubt, one off you is infertile. And honestly, given the way some republicans are. Only trust your own eyes on the microscope when checking. Because forcing doctors to lie to women is far from beyond some of these people.
Honestly, leaving the US for a more liberal nation is the only safe option the way things are looking.
Ciswomen were having sex?
Then wait, why are there so many incels?
Joking aside, there actually have been times when I’ve been at a social event and I’m gonna fuck a guy because why not… but he starts going off on incel bullshit and how far right he is because “Women aren’t women” anymore, and I’m like… “Yeah I gotta go…” while thinking “Can’t believe he talked his way OUT of a sure thing.”
So I fully understand why there are so many incels.
“Can’t believe he talked his way OUT of a sure thing.”
People are great at stealing defeat from the jaws of victory!
Kind of the theme of the week, no?
so, because punishing all women is bad, it’s a good idea to punish all men?
here’s an alternative: don’t fuck republicans… they’re the ones trying to control women.They’re not obligated to date men though, if they want to participate in 4B then I don’t see what’s wrong with that. They are allowed to assert their bodily autonomy, it’s a form of protest against how they are treated
go ahead and pretend like i’m saying women are obligated to do something or not….
i’m not saying anything like that, but go ahead and argue with imaginary peopleOkay cool. So if we agree that individuals are not obligated to date men, then it follows that choosing not to do so is not a punishment towards men. A punishment requires a penalty or deprivation, and since dating is not a requirement, there can be no deprivation occurring.
This movement was not created to punish some men who feel entitled to a relationship, it’s (primarily) to advocate for their rights and against the expectations they are subject to.
It has been pointed out to me that it might constitute a punishment for a subset of entitled men so this is not entirely accurate. That said, I would still say it is unjustified to frame this as a punishment of all men, especially considering that subset of entitled men likely constitutes of the very people in favor of removing rights from women.
A punishment requires a penalty or deprivation, and since dating is not a requirement, there can be no deprivation occurring.
Fwiw, a common example of a punishment removing something that is desired but not required is temporarily taking away X from a rowdy kid, be it phone, snacks, etc, which does poke a hole in that assertion.
Thank you, I hadn’t thought about that, you’re right.
Would you say then that that form of punishment only affects someone who believes they are entitled to something they typically get? (I can’t see how it would affect someone that doesn’t get something, and I don’t see how it would affect someone that doesn’t feel entitled to it)
Then, in opposition of what I said, I do agree it would punish a subset of entitled men. I will add an edit to what I said if I’ve understood this correctly.
Yes, I’d agree that for it to be a punishment entitlement would need to be involved - for example nobody feels punished that they didn’t win the lotto by buying one ticket.
Entitlement can take the form of the status quo, whether or not that’s justified is not a conversation I have enough critical thinking for.
I think what I haven’t seen cleared up in this thread is there are actually two reasons for 4b floating around - one is to try and bring about societal change by crashing the birth rate, but the other is simply out of safety and self-preservation of women. If we focus on the latter, it makes sense that women in more dangerous societies will choose 4b more often than those where they feel safer.
The conclusion I come to is that 4b will be more common in states that do not value the bodily autonomy/safety of women, which I’d say largely points to conservative states.
In a way, if safety and bodily autonomy is the reason for choosing 4b, it will self-regulate to not “punish” or affect those who generally vote to pass policies treating women properly.
I think there was some nuance that was lost in the call for “all” women to participate in 4b
Thanks for the clarification, I’d rather not get something wrong because of a misunderstanding.
I definitely agree with you, it seems logical that the 4B movement would become more popular in the areas where there are bigger threats to the autonomy and safety of women, self-preservation (and solidarity for that matter) is an extremely important factor.
That said, I do understand why there is a call for “all” women to participate. Having more women participating across a country seems like it would increase resistance of some members of the national/federal government to stripping away more rights away from women. It’s quite a complicated subject.
Its not punishing all men, its punishing conservative men.
4B doesnt neex to apply for leftist men
You really don’t think guys won’t lie to get laid?
I give it about 6 months of this strategy before conservative men will be paid to pretend to be leftists in order to impregnate women, so I understand the “don’t fuck any man” strategy.
There are lots of men that hide how conservative they are to get their dick wet. It’s been this way for at least 13 years.
It’s been that way for a lot longer than that.
They already do that btw
I started this in 2016 in the lead up to the election. Got sterilized in 2022 after the Dobbs decision leaked. Too many guys are secret misogynists at best, and pro rape/anti-abortion at worst. The lectures I had to do to convince my ex that rape is rape, whether you fight off the perp or not.
Same boat, but executed the sterilization much earlier (2014 or so when they were starting to really push the TRAPP laws). Saw the writing on the wall and want nothing to do with any of it.
I can’t imagine having to make that decision.
Given how reactionary the average Gen Z guys are, this is less of a protest and more of a self-preservation tactic.
Because young men will have a much easier time getting laid when abortion is restricted nationwide and contraceptives are harder to get 🙄 talk about shooting yourself in the dick
I’m scared they gonna a pull some Bible crap and force women to marry rapists.
Or there’s going to be a lot more dead rapists.
And the world gets better.
i highly doubt women will just stop having sex. its as dumb as asking men to stop jerking off. just never gonna happen
When the choice is a man thinking of you as property to control or a vibrator/custom sized dildo, idk why you think it’s even a contest.
your comment makes it sound like women are incapable of having sex with men simply because they enjoy sex with men
it would be like me turning down a handjob because ive been doing it myself for years
Reducing it to the core,… yes a few hate fucks could still occur. But a relationship with a misogynist is only possible with psychological disorders on the women’s side. (Mostly Self loathing, no self esteem != woke women who have self esteem).
Do what you want. I don’t give a fuck.
I don’t give a fuck
Ah, see what you did there.
The no marriage part is interesting, the rest carries more unintended collateral.
As a movement, removing the institutional component would affect the wider group, and their wallets.
Nobody should be forced into relationships and customs that don’t suit them. It’s up to them to decide if the downsides are excessive or a price worth paying.
